So what your saying SPENCE is that you have a hunch the work place will be less safe based on what you think Bush may or may not have done.

Now I get the point. Here I was dealing with facts.

And please, if you have any good Buckman jokes step too the front of the classroom and share with the rest of us.

And I didn't rip Obama in this thread. I just lack the confidence in him that others have. I hope I'm wrong

here is a joke- Buckman thinks Bush did a great job for the past 8 years... :rotfl:

Never said that Nebe.
Once again if someone even dares think that Bush did somethings right, they are stupid and a joke to the those of you on the open and excepting left.

And if anyone questions Obama at all they are deamed too stupid to see what a great leader he might be.

God forbid anyone dare defend Bush for protecting us. FYI. Obama will keep the same policies. BECAUSE THEY WORK

As I've stated many many times:

Correlation does not imply causation.

I would 100% agree that the workplace is safer now than it was 8 years ago. However, I strongly disagree that Bush had a single thing to do with it.

8 years is a long time when you consider advances in safety equipment and processes. Also, we live in a litigation-happy society now (thanks to groups like the ACLU) and I know that alone has motivated employers to improve their safety records. In addition, OSHA has tightened their regulations and actually enforces some of them now instead of turning a blind eye.

Taking the economy, unemployment rate, several reports that we're no safer from terrorists than we were 8 years ago, the last minute Executive Order taking science out of environmental policies and Bush's abysmal approval rating - I would have to disagree that any of Bush's policies have worked.

Actually;
I think this thread clearly started as he did do some things right.
in my mind:
1. He/his administration in the days immediately post-9/11 were nearly flawless
2. he went into Afganastan after Bin Laden and the Taliban BUT
this got mucked up, and we went into Iraq too. I think we and the world, would be exponentially better off if we had stayed 100% focused on the war on terror in Afgan. instead of %$%$%$%$ing around in Iraq. On larry king recently he openly admitted he has no clue IF we ever even got CLOSE to getting Bin laden....

Di he do every single thing wrong?
Nope.
Did he do more wrong then right, in my eyes a big YUP!

I agree Brian.
We don't know the direction Iraq would have taken if we had done things different. I guess we will never know. Hind sight is never the best way to look at a situation but it is the best way to never make the same mistakes again.....but we will.

I suggest you read this.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ir...r_vs_euro.html

on jan 17th, 2000 a euro was worth $1.01 cents. Today a euro is worth $1.32

We didnt go into Iraq to take their oil, we went in to make sure they sold it based on the dollar..

I have talked to my daughter and a friends daughter who are in college and they both voted for Obama. They told me that most kids in school believe the US goverment and Bush created the 9/11 mass murder of thousands. Now thats indicitive of what the left has created. Not what Bush did or didn't do. It became cool to bash Bush and jump on the Obama band wagon. We have a lot of very cool people here on Striper Talk.

Buckman - That's certainly a tough idea to swallow and I can't conceive of Bush being involved in it. However, if you look at the Project for A New American Century (PNAC) Mid-East "gameplan" where they state that the american public would never support their Mid-East policy UNLESS we were attcked and realize that many of the supporters of this plan were major admin. figures it is disconcerting. Did "we" do it..again I can't believe it.. but I sure think "we" took advantage of it with a purpose beyond "The War on Terror"!

It would make a great Oliver Stone movie. It's a sensitive subject that is best left alone.
I just hope we never forget the feeling we all had that day.

I shouldn't have said most kids. I meant many do.

Buckman, with all completely due respect, a lot of your responses to objective, cited comments are just subjective opinions.

My roommate is a high school teacher, my girlfriend is finishing her undergrad and entering grad school and neither of them agree with anything you just stated above. While I have no doubt some people are ignorant enough to bite in to the conspiracies, "most kids in school" certainly do not believe the Bush administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.

Also, "the left" in no way has every stated that Bush created the events of 9/11. Political idiots and conspiracy theorists created that idea. People that believe that garbage shouldn't be allowed an opinion.

And one more thing, just because someone criticizes Bush, does not mean they are from "the left" or "liberals", otherwise, 2/3rds of the the Republicans in Congress must be from the left and liberals - half of which have been criticizing Bush for 4 years now.

There are no doubt people that jumped on the Obama bandwagon, and I have personally called those people out. On the other hand, the "cool people here on Stripertalk" that you're inferring have done the same thing have stated specifics as to why they like him, his policies and his approach to being President.

When someone spouts out some factless, uneducated or fabricated reason for why they like Obama over Bush, then you can accuse people here of "jumping on the wagon with the cool kids." I've been bashing Bush for well over 4 years now, before Obama was even around.

**Edit** I'm too slow in my responses. I respect your change of "most" to "many". There are definitely some real bozos out there.

And for the record; I teach science at the college level and am in graduate school, so I spend a lot of time around college aged-kids

I don't think I know an undergrad who believes Bush was the mastermind of 9/11... and I'm a geology department, we are crunchier than most!

I think Bush is going too far in allowing the conditions for the workplace to be less safe because they're pandering to the interests of business rather than the people.

And facts without context are just meaningless numbers. The facts you quoted, in context of the discussion don't conclude much for reasons already stated.

-spence

How did he seem like a hero?
By standing there?
Yeah, real hero. I didn't see him pulling corpses out of rubble.
I didn't see him in there helping find missing people.

If thats your idea of a hero then we're all screwed.

The thread is about perception/sentiment and how a seemingly hi flier went to a seemingly low flier..that's how I'll remember him.

As for my "real" heroes, I'm an underdog groupie from way back...

Spence, I have some land to sell you... You seem to be satisfied with simple promises and nothing else. The wedge issues he has supposedly transcended are already biting him in the ass. Ask the gay community who thought they had their savior. Do you actually believe he will lead us into the next century when it is the year 2009? Are you living in a yurt or just eating mushrooms?
He is smart, the rest of your points are without merit.

I'm not an Obama zealot, and don't trust any politician to make good on their promises. What Obama does bring is a vision that the majority of America agrees with, and a sense of leadership that people seem to believe in. Bush 43 had the vision but little leadership, and we quickly came to understand that his vision was an election year stunt. I'm willing to give Obama a chance, as I stated above...

As for the gay issue, Obama clearly brings a new attitude towards these issues different than any previous US president. So they got their black t-shirts in a tizzy because he has a religious speaker who's not GLB friendy, big whoop. Personally I don't like what the man says, but it's clear Obama is trying to reach out.

Is it all calculated BS? Sure it is...but I'll give him some points for trying.

Where's the land?

-spence