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Old 01-15-2009, 01:27 PM   #1
Back Beach
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Bush's legacy...hero to zero?

I remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. In particular, I remember the "W" address to our nation from atop a smoking pile of rubble and ensuing response the US made. He seemd like a hero to me at the time.
On the eve of the "W" farewell address, I feel like once again he's standing atop a smoking pile of (literal) rubble. He's got a big pair of donkey ears now instead of a megaphone. Anyone else feel this way, and how will you remember him?

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Old 01-15-2009, 02:54 PM   #2
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He will be remembered as a complete tool who chose to guide this country based on Ideals Vs. rational thought. Furthermore, the ones who held his puppet strings as he chased rabbits while the farm burned are laughing themselves right to the bank.
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Old 01-15-2009, 03:04 PM   #3
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He'll always be 4th best in line....Right after Bozo, Clarabell, and Krusty

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Old 01-15-2009, 03:34 PM   #4
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I remember that moment on 9/11 as well and I remember thinking how maybe GWB was going to be a great president..... then I actually woke up and starting educating myself on political affairs and that all went out the window...
still though, that speech was good (I think that was the last good one though)
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:47 PM   #5
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that speech was good (I think that was the last good one though)
For all we know, they had that speach planned months before..
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:54 PM   #6
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Talking BUSH

who !

never heard of him

and don't care to

thanks a whole Bunch
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:01 PM   #7
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For all we know, they had that speach planned months before..
which would then make him and Cheney the greatest geniuses of all time.

You cant have it both ways.

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Old 01-15-2009, 05:55 PM   #8
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He's got a big pair of donkey ears now

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Old 01-16-2009, 06:57 AM   #9
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I remember 9/11 like it was yesterday. In particular, I remember the "W" address to our nation from atop a smoking pile of rubble and ensuing response the US made. He seemd like a hero to me at the time.
On the eve of the "W" farewell address, I feel like once again he's standing atop a smoking pile of (literal) rubble. He's got a big pair of donkey ears now instead of a megaphone. Anyone else feel this way, and how will you remember him?
Well put.
I do believe he has had the country best interest at heart. I also believe he is honest and genuine. I know one thing for sure. He set the Republican party backwards,. I just wish they were more forceful in defending themselfs and the positions they took. Taking the high road does not work in Washington.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:37 AM   #10
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Did anyone watch Bush's farewell address last night?

There should be no doubt left that Bush is living in an alternate universe, seeing his legacy only as he wishes to see it, and not caring one whip if you don't agree.

A few times I don't know how he kept a straight face.

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Old 01-16-2009, 08:00 AM   #11
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I think he's a smart guy who loves his country (as do all people who go into politics) but he's intellectually lazy and uncurious. That causes him to not read papers, watch the news, ask questions, etc. and thus, when someone like a Cheney or a Rumsfield would tell him something, he would go along with it w/o thinking it thru or the ramifications.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:18 AM   #12
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Did anyone watch Bush's farewell address last night?

There should be no doubt left that Bush is living in an alternate universe, seeing his legacy only as he wishes to see it, and not caring one whip if you don't agree.

A few times I don't know how he kept a straight face.

-spence
I watched more of his address than Obama did.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:40 PM   #13
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Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.
What are your predictions for the stock market i'd like to bet against you and become independently wealthy.

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Old 01-16-2009, 03:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.
I think your right to some extent. But not with the extreme policies.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:11 PM   #16
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What are your predictions for the stock market i'd like to bet agoinst you and become independently wealthy.
so far

- Obama is keeping Bush tax cuts in place, a reversal of his prior statements
- He is keeping the same general in charge in Iraq and just this week Clinton said " Both she and the President are intersted in ending the war in Iraq responslibly" What the hell does that mean? Wasnt that McCain's stance? I thought Obama was all about withdrawing troups?

More to come

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Old 01-16-2009, 03:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Here's a little prediction that we all know will come true and already has started..... Obama will keep most, if not all Bush policies in effect.... the dems will now love those same policies, that they hated Bush for...... And they will take credit for the good that comes out of them while hanging Bush with anything bad that happens over the next four years.
Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:14 PM   #18
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ending the war in Iraq responslibly" What the hell does that mean? Wasnt that McCain's stance? I thought Obama was all about withdrawing troups?
More to come
McCain's take was 'As long as it takes'

HOPEFULLY, to me, responsibly ending it means a steady draw down of forces in the next year, until we have a minimal presence, at least on the front lines... too many kids getting killed for no reason.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:28 PM   #19
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Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.
nice one!!!
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:31 PM   #20
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Pls. tell me when Obama starts embracing ignorance and assaulting science, environmental policies, worker's rights, a womans right to choose, starts torturing people, politicizing the justice department, cooking intelligence for political ends, etc. and I'll start critizing Obama.
Right. and there have been no advances in science in the last 8 years. No funding at all. Workers rights have changes how? A woman's right to abort an unborn child has changed how? I'll use the " your child is buried in a box somewhere" analogy to defend mild forms of information exstraction. The intelligence Bush used was the same that everyone including Clinton had. You have Obama on a pedistal without him doing a damn thing.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #21
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Right. and there have been no advances in science in the last 8 years. No funding at all. Workers rights have changes how? A woman's right to abort an unborn child has changed how? I'll use the " your child is buried in a box somewhere" analogy to defend mild forms of information exstraction. The intelligence Bush used was the same that everyone including Clinton had. You have Obama on a pedistal without him doing a damn thing.
The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, and the influence of corporate interests in matters such as workplace safety through deregulation efforts were driven by idiology and not common sense.

Buttman, it's like you're trying to rip Obama down before he's had the chance to do a damn thing.

Sometimes I think some people just don't get why others are so critical of the Bush Administration. They are so convinced the Liberals just had the "man" they have forgotten what makes America so great.

-spence
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:33 PM   #22
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If Bush's legacy is so bad why is Obama keeping Bush people around, for instance the Secdef, and the guy getting promoted to fed chief.

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Old 01-16-2009, 06:47 PM   #23
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The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, -spence
BINGO.

I can tell you there is a list of top level scientists at NASA, EPA, NOAA who have been stifled by the administration; You can call it Gore BS, since he talked about the editing of reports in 'Truth' BUT

there is a top level guy at EPA, who specializes in Sea level rise, rates, costs, etc, and has been studying it and working on policy since the 80's. He was basically told to shut up and any comments and reports he was to make, would go through the administrators from now on. Peer review is one thing, it is what science thrives on. Political review kills science. Plain and simple.

"If Bush's legacy is so bad why is Obama keeping Bush people around, for instance the Secdef, and the guy getting promoted to fed chief."
Because some of them are qualified, I think keeping Gates on was a GREAT move. it should be about putting good people in position to do good things.

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:39 PM   #24
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The intrusion of politics over science in the making of policy was unprecidented during the Bush years, and the influence of corporate interests in matters such as workplace safety through deregulation efforts were driven by idiology and not common sense.

Buttman, it's like you're trying to rip Obama down before he's had the chance to do a damn thing.

Sometimes I think some people just don't get why others are so critical of the Bush Administration. They are so convinced the Liberals just had the "man" they have forgotten what makes America so great.-spence


Buttman! Is that's the best the smartest man on the internet could come up with. How disappointing, Truth be told SPENCE the work place has never, I repeat never been safer, more worker friendly and more employee protected. Ever! Do you even work in a real work enviroment. Try to fire someone for being a slacker now a days. It can't be done.


I'm not ripping the MAN down. I'm just not saying he can walk on water. Hell, if he does 1/3 of what he said, I'll be voting for him in four years.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:12 PM   #25
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I'm not ripping the MAN down. I'm just not saying he can walk on water. Hell, if he does 1/3 of what he said, I'll be voting for him in four years.
This has been saved on my hard drive.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:51 AM   #26
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This has been saved on my hard drive.
Yoy have my word Nebe, unless Palin's running
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Old 01-17-2009, 08:42 AM   #27
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Buttman! Is that's the best the smartest man on the internet could come up with. How disappointing, Truth be told SPENCE the work place has never, I repeat never been safer, more worker friendly and more employee protected. Ever! Do you even work in a real work enviroment. Try to fire someone for being a slacker now a days. It can't be done.
Sorry, I was transcribing some ancient Korean poems in my head last night and the "utt" sound is phonetically the same as "uck" in that language. My bad...

But being able to fire someone isn't the kind of protection we're talking about. Yes, in general most workplaces are pretty safe but the credit should be given to the people who think like Ralph Nader (even though he's a kook) rather than Ronald Reagan. But under Bush the anti-government attitude sent regulations in the other direction. Granted, some conservatives think this was a good thing, who cares if Timmy's dad dies in the coal mine as long as the government doesn't get in the way.

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I'm not ripping the MAN down. I'm just not saying he can walk on water. Hell, if he does 1/3 of what he said, I'll be voting for him in four years.
I don't think you really understand why some are so fascinated by the man. 1) He's black 2) he's inspiring 3) he seems to be pretty smart 4) he's pragmatic 5) we're in the middle of a generational shift and it looks like the people actually bucked the system and chose someone who (on paper at least) might be just what we need to lead us into the next century.

Obama has trancended the traditional wedge issues and has the potential to really change the dialogue in this country...

...or he could be a complete disaster. But I figured I'd at least give him a chance before passing judgement, as I did with GWB.

-spence
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:40 AM   #28
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:41 AM   #29
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Sorry, I was transcribing some ancient Korean poems in my head last night and the "utt" sound is phonetically the same as "uck" in that language. My bad...

But being able to fire someone isn't the kind of protection we're talking about. Yes, in general most workplaces are pretty safe but the credit should be given to the people who think like Ralph Nader (even though he's a kook) rather than Ronald Reagan. But under Bush the anti-government attitude sent regulations in the other direction. Granted, some conservatives think this was a good thing, who cares if Timmy's dad dies in the coal mine as long as the government doesn't get in the way.


I don't think you really understand why some are so fascinated by the man. 1) He's black 2) he's inspiring 3) he seems to be pretty smart 4) he's pragmatic 5) we're in the middle of a generational shift and it looks like the people actually bucked the system and chose someone who (on paper at least) might be just what we need to lead us into the next century.

Obama has trancended the traditional wedge issues and has the potential to really change the dialogue in this country...

...or he could be a complete disaster. But I figured I'd at least give him a chance before passing judgement, as I did with GWB.

-spence
Maybe if you could supply so statistics to back that up it would help.
Here's a link http://www.bls.gov/iif/, in every catagory, the work place injury rates have steadily improved year to year.

This is what people and the media have done in regards to Bush. Throw out an untruth, say it often enough, Bush won't defend himself, and it becomes fact. The fact is the workplace is safer now then 8 years ago.

As far as Obama goes, I agree with you.

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Old 01-17-2009, 10:24 AM   #30
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This is what people and the media have done in regards to Bush. Throw out an untruth, say it often enough, Bush won't defend himself, and it becomes fact. The fact is the workplace is safer now then 8 years ago.
Once again, you're missing the point.

1) It's not like a policy shift is going to result in immediate problems, which could take years or even decades to manifest.

2) I'd wager a lot of the drop in workplace injuries the past decade have to do with the continued outsourcing of higher-risk manufacturing jobs.

When people talk about workplace safety and Bush they're talking about the policy shifts that may influence the trends. Toxic substances being labeled as "not all that toxic", freezing new OSHA protections and repealing ergonimics standards for workplace injury.

Most of this isn't written into Bills by Congress but hidden in executive orders and by pressuring internal governmental organizations. There are no simple "stats" to quote as the issue is far more complicated.

This of course is also a partisan issue. Liberals believe more government regulation is necessary to protect workers, Conservatives believe the businesses should be left to regulate themselves.

Ultimately the best path is probably in the middle.

Do you know what Buckman means in Tibek-Himalayan? I can't say

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