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The truth is nobody will ever know the exact, or even close to the exact numbers of Fish Recs are catching..... As for Gamefish, you can wish it all you want and its not going to happen anytime soon.. They were just trying to increase com limits this year... Especially since all the states with the exception of Maine and North Carolina,(Northern/Southern Limits - Migration water temp sensitive), Have had absolutely no problem filling their com quotas year after year. The pics of all the thousands of Dead Bass floating off the north Carolina week after week give people that dont have a clue the illusion that the ocean is paved with striped bass.... |
In my view I find it illogical and almost immoral to have a comm fishery on a species that is declining in numbers, having forage, breading and health issues. Nothing can justify this IMO. Comm fishing segment should be the first to be shut down when a fishery is heading for trouble. Regardless of who is catching what. Moreover if you want to talk about uncounted or inaccurate fish in terms of numbers, look no further than the comm industry. The discard numbers + black market + high grading numbers are insane, Further, the rec numbers include RELEASED fish. Rec kill is a fraction of what it was in years past.
As far as gamefish goes... it is inevitable and it will happen much sooner than you think. It is the best way to protect the species from exploitation...take the $ off this fishes head directly. Yeah you can go catch them from charter boats but there is little incentive to fill your cockpit with them anymore. (Just because you can doesn't mean you should. We should not protect the jobs of comm fisherman just because this is what they chose to do, do what is right for the species and let the chips fall where they may. ENOUGH with this maximum yield theory. The answer is very simple: Gamefish status 1 @ 36 rec fishing (with C&R only... if needed) Aggressive restoration of all forage species |
From the Oxford American dictionary
Commercial ( adjective ) 1. Concerned with or engaged in commerce. 2. Making or intended to make a profit. (a) Having profit, rather than artistic or other value, as a primary aim: It is rather obvious that we should break the accountability take pie into thirds. Commercial. ( selling fish ) Charter / Headboats . ( selling fishing ) Recreational. I work some weekends as a mate on a Charter boat out of Green harbor. The general theme is a keep everything meat fishing trip. The whole attitude is to fill the box. A far cry from most ( not all ) people that I know when they are out fishing for enjoyment. No way it's an either or , now you would be just arguing semantics. But this is all a mute point to our collective ignorance to the future of this fishery. The plenty of now does not mean the plenty of tomorrow. Hell, just look at the state of our Country and economy. Aren't we all just looking around wondering " what happened ? It was so good not long ago, " You can definitely draw some parallels to striped bass fishing, once this large biomass out there now is gone we may be in trouble. The deterioration of the estuarine nursery may not bode well for all of us, who for work or play, pursue this fish. As I said earlier it now takes 3 times the breeders to produce the same YOY as it did 20 years ago.Something is very wrong. Get involved. |
IMO charter and head boats are not selling fish. They are selling a service; a ride out to where the fish are, rental equipment, bait and instruction. Most of the time the customers keep the fish for personal use.
To me the real difference centers around final results. On a charter 6 people go out and they get to spend a day on the water with friends and maybe catch 12 bass. For many of them this only happens once or twice a season. They pay the charter 3.5 to 6 hundred depending on location and time. They may also eat out and rent a couple of rooms. So in the end six people got to have a good day fishing and dumped some money into the economy. The boat earns about what one commercial fisherman would make if he caught 12 fish. So the main difference is in one case 7 people benefit and in the other case only two at most when averaged (whole saler and retailer). In both cases the trickle down is still there just to different people and the fish make it to the public for use. |
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Those of us who cherish the striped bass fishery just need to attack this problem from every angle.
1) support the recovery of forage fish by limiting take on herring (both sea herring and alewife/blueback) and menhaden specifically 2) support catch and release (I take fewer fish now than I ever have) 3) support legislation that puts "reasonable" restrictions on commercial take 4) support clean-up of polluted spawning grounds and put penalties on those who pollute these areas 5) report poaching and other violations 6) support legislation that prevents (and penalizes) the mid-water trawler fleet and others that destroy bass as by-catch 7) encourage others to do #1 thru #6 8) encourage others to encourage others |
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The worst part of the stupidity is when 3000 comercial guys really do beleive they have the same quantity rights as 3,000,000 recreational fishermen and women. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but seems a little skewed to me. Don't really give a damn most of the time now about the comercial arguement that they have the right to 50 percent of the stocks out there. reallity is that their logic has been screwey since day one. It is stupid at best and sad at worst. I kept a handfull of fish Cowhunter. You have no more right to anymore fish than I do. don't really care if your comercial or not. No one fisherman has more right than the next. BUT WE ALL HAVE THE
SAME RESPONSABILITY TO CONSERVE THE SPEICIES.The rec catch is 70 percent lower than 2005 for the rec. Means a lot of people don't catch squat anymore. Seems that the problems still comes down to selfishness. Commercials seem to never want to stop no matter how bad it gets unless they're forced to. Don't see an 20,000 recreational fish kills. MMMM funny that isn't it. Don't see a whole hell of a lot of catch an release among commercials unless it's to cull MMMMMM seems we just saw commercials idea of catch an release ooooppppssss no one said the fish had to be alive to have a chance.Just throw them overboard to get them out of the way for bigger market fish.We worked hard in the past to force the morritorium we'll just have to do it again no matter how much lieing is done. Sad for it to have to be this way. 36 in won't work we've been there .1 fish won't work we've been there.0 catch seemed to help especially when the commercial fishery was totally shut down. MMMMMM even with 30,000 commercials seems that 3,000,000 recreational has enough votes to force the issue.That's a low estimate on the REC numbers too. |
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I think you are overly generalizing what does on. |
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Knock down the rec catch to one fish.. The com catch I could care less what they do, but it aint going away so Ill fish it, after all its gonna get filled with or without me anyway, (Or you can sit home like Sandman and Complain About it), at least there is a quota and the season is closed when its hit. Recreationally its on 7 days a week, 12 months a year from ME to NC with a few closed areas during seasons.... All there is is Finger Pointing and Blaming Others instead of fixing the problem. Sounds like Democrats and Republicans! |
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So in a nutshell it's time to stop talking and push for a moratorium since we can't seem to get those that still want it all to do whats needed.Catch an release period. Till things are fixed. Then no commercial fishing period for them and if needed a limit of 2 fish per charter for charter boats to cut down the rediculous waste off Jearsy and Virginia.Since as a group we can't seem to get beyond the greed and selfishness maybe there are enough of us that can push the issue so we have a tomorrow. Before it's too late.There are some damn good fishermen on this site and several others. None of us would be worth a damn at it without the fish. Ron
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While you are at it You may also want to consider doing something about the Bait problem in New England, those fish will need a sustainable food supply and there really isnt much around inshore. Down here in NJ and LI the Bunker boats were kicked offshore, not allowed in the Bays. Its one of the reasons we have enjoyed such Fantastic runs of fish the last few years! Its nice to have miles of bunker along the beaches and bays.... |
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If there is a problem at all, its a problem with recruitment, the YOY survey has been low for several years now. No one knows exactly what is causing the problem with recruitment but it certainly has nothing to do with fishing mortality. We have enough spawning stock biomass. Problems are most likely due to environmental conditions in the Chessie and weather.
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More eggs in the water can't be a bad thing , can it ?
Till our molasses slow goverment agencies can get their collective acts together to work out the real issues and data. |
I've read a number of theories on this, many of them allude to the mycobacteriosis problem in the bay.
Opinions vary... some say that the females are more greatly affected, as they contract the disease while in the bay, and the stress of migration does them in. Another interesting one was that the males are the most heavily affected... Theory states that females need X number of males in close proximity to them in order for spawning to be triggered... If the males aren't there (dead, not moving/lethargic due to infection) then the females simply won't spawn. You can have plenty of big girls, but no eggs are getting spewed. Unfortunately I don't have the links bookmarked, if I find them I'll put them up. Any way you look at it, recruitment is probably the most pressing concern at this time. |
Mako and Jack,finally two people that see what the real problem is.you can have all the bass in the world if they don't have sucessful spawn there is no future,no matter how few we kill.
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Some of the comments here make me want to puke.
I am ashamed to be even loosely associated with you thru SB or simply by being called a fishermen. Everyone (including you) have a responsibility to conserve this great fish for future generations...just because you can take the fish doesn't mean you should. You hang out with the wrong crowd if you don't know anyone who is fishing solely to catch his "legal limit" One of the proudest moment as a farther figure/sportsmen for me was when my 12 yo son said (as we were hammering big bass one night drifting eels in Quicks)..Dad, these fish are really big...we only need one fish, lets let the others go. He got the idea at 12... why can't you? Maybe it is in the genes...I don't know.:confused: I am just an old man who has lost his mind I guess.:confused: |
one of my proudest moments was eating the first keeper my son caught.i guess as i see it if i am going to fish for it i am going to eat it.nothing worse than killing some for the sport of it,just my opinion
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Maybe because NH people experience the stock drops earlier then others we are more sensitive to it. Most all of the people I know practice catch and release. Maybe keep one or two a season usually due to deep hooks. The NH members on the ASMFC striper board are also strong supports of reducing the catch. I do also write letters and support other aspects of commercial fishing. I can not understand why there is no rec limit on haddock and some of the other ground fish. Why they don't set it at 10 like cod is beyond me. In this case I'm more than happy to give the extra fish to the commercial guys. For most fish, except maybe something like scup, once you go above 5 thats enough. |
Well with the lack of small fish the 80's aren't far away. The charter pressure and bycatch pressure are huge now so the down spiral will start soon. Without little guys to replace whats caught of the cows the number of fish landed is going to drop in a lot more places besides just along the surf.So the glut isn't going to last long on the migration routes. Wonder what the excuses will be this time. Oh I remember the tournaments killed them all LOL what a joke some of what is posted is. Only thing different now than in the 70's is the names of those who don't want to do anything. Many of those calling for action now were around in the 60's to now and have seen this before and are worried as this time there are way more things in the way of restoration.Lack of money,way more seals along migration routes,worse bycatchmore sharks inshore and way more anglers. Ron
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WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :bc . On every site u see the same thing +itching and moning. Do yourself a favor don't point ur finger at someone else. There is no I in team. I see as many dead fish on the rocks when i rec fish as i do when i com fish. I fish when the fish show up and fish til they leave. Personaly i think the recs kill way more fish. Go to the other site and watch someone post the canal was hot. Next day the road will be loaded with dead fish.:grins:. What about the striper cup lots of teams = lots lbs of dead pounds. I rather sell a 20lb fish for $ than see someone weight one in to win a $10 prize. Com go buy quota fill it its over. If they want to shut it down just get it over with and shut it down. Every winter we see the same thing com Bashing and recs clashing. The problem wont be solved if both sides dont agree with each other.
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Seems to me that what we have here is a failure to communicate. :)
"Conservation" means different things to different people and lets not confuse "conservation" with "allocation" Allocation meaning how much each sector, commercial vs recreational gets to catch. Conservation to some at one end of the spectrum seems to mean having the maximum number of fish in the water that nature can sustain. At the other end of the spectrum it seems to mean having enough fish in the water so that they can be easily caught. Neither is the basis for fishery management in this country! Fishery management in this country is based on achieving and retaining a biomass (fish population) that is capable of providing the maximum sustainable yield (MSY). That is the most fish that can be caught year after year, and every year, without reducing the population of fish. The scientists come up with the figure for the biomass that will provide MSY. Then they do stock assessments which provide an estimate of the current biomass. Then the Acceptable Biological Catch (ABC) is estimated to either keep the biomass at MSY or rebuild it to the MSY biomass. The ABC is then adjusted by various factors to come up with the Annual Catch Limit (ACL) The regulations are then crafted using statistical models to meet the desired ACL. The key take away for the purposes of this discussion is that the ACLs will be designed to keep the biomass at MSY. In the case of stripers the biomass is already above MSY, so there will be no tightening of the regulations. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't affect national policy unless and until you get your Congressmen and Senators to change the rules of the game. Right now the ASMFC would be breaking the law to enact stricter regulation on stripers. |
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