year 2010 recreational catch statistics

[Mr. Sandman]

A buddy of mine sent this to me this morning...passing it on FYI

These are the official numbers of striped bass caught and caught and released by recreational fishermen for the Atlantic Coast and for Massachusetts. In both cases it is off approx. 70 to 75% since 2006.

Do you see a problem?

[DZ]

Well that's pretty depressing.

DZ

[JFigliuolo]

Actually, selfishly, it cheers me up as my numbers (especially last year) reflect that data... (ok, it really is depressing)

[JohnR]

Hopefully the changes in how they figure juvenile recruitment will allow them to put the brakes on and reduce take both recreationally and commercially all across the board.

Cutting one to benefit the other is not going to reduce pressure enough on the fish. Got back to 2006 regs (05?) and then cut a third.

[JohnnyD]

You know what would help fix this? 1@36" and no comm season.

It's a good thing we needed all those hearings with that impotent regulatory body to debate having a quota increase or not.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

You know what would help fix this? 1@36" and no comm season.

What would really help is to stop the illegal winter fishing in the southern areas!

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

would be curouis to know if the number of people fishing and the time fishing has gone down also. working in a tackle shop i can tell you that the number of people coming in in the last few years has dropped by 50 percent and the number of boats that fish in this area is way down,even though the fishing has been pretty good.i would really like to know what the actual biomass of bass is verus what is being caught.

[likwid]

Recreational Fishery Statistics Catch Snapshot Query

Go through each group etc.

Something seems amiss....

[MAKAI]

"We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by likwid

Recreational Fishery Statistics Catch Snapshot Query

Go through each group etc.

Something seems amiss....

DelMarVa Chesapeake?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by JohnR

DelMarVa Chesapeake?

private/shore/headboat/charter

[bigbuck28]

Nothing is going to change until every state makes the same rules....Look at ME and MA there completely different.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by likwid

private/shore/headboat/charter

Ahhh. I was seeing the absence of one of their key "regions" - thanks.

[CowHunter]

Lets get this straight... Recreational caught 621, 253 Striped bass.... Lets give it a conservative average of 18lbs is 11, 182, 554 lbs... That is 11 times the commercial Limit... Lets be honest here..... How many people do you know that reports there fish? those numbers are way, off still... As I said in the past Recs kill way more fish! Charter and headboats count towards rec cathes like it or not because they dont go against quotas... All Im saying is recs quit pointing fingers, we are all killing fish rec and com alike with Recs killing the largest Share....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Lets get this straight... Recreational caught 621, 253 Striped bass.... Lets give it a conservative average of 18lbs is 11, 182, 554 lbs... That is 11 times the commercial Limit... Lets be honest here..... How many people do you know that reports there fish? those numbers are way, off still... As I said in the past Recs kill way more fish! Charter and headboats count towards rec cathes like it or not because they dont go against quotas... All Im saying is recs quit pointing fingers, we are all killing fish rec and com alike with Recs killing the largest Share....

If you're gonna call people out, maybe put those 50s that you're always boasting about back.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If you're gonna call people out, maybe put those 50s that you're always boasting about back.

Have I complained once about a lack of fish?? I don't hide that I kill fish.. Just funny how people point the finger at coms. Agian those Rec numbers are grossly understated. There is no benefit of reporting a catch recreationally, I don't know any rec guys that have, they are off by much more than you think...
And I have put 50's back...

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[BasicPatrick]

We (recreational advocates) claim the recreational numbers are bogus and that is the heart and soul of what drove the registry/license move along the coast. The new system is not yet in place and I for one agree with Kenny that there are way more fish caught by our community than the numbers show.

IF this is true then the numbers are skewed and there are more fish than we think as well...I state this because the number of reported fish is a part of how the overall amount is calculated.

On a related note and a far more accurate (in many more educated than myself's) opinion, the young of the year index has been on a significant decline. There has been a prpediction for at least five years that there would be a lot less maller fish and that is absolutely true.

The same scientific modeling state there are more large available and all we all know the last few years have seen an almost unbelievable amount of supercows.

We also now KNOW that Mycobacteriosis is spreading and that a lack of quality forage is part of that problem...according to scientists not me or other fishermen.

We also know that as the numbers of fish skyrocketed the recreational catch went through the ceiling and the commercial catch got one small bump and it was small.

Now that the recreational catch is falling responsible management is not to just blame the commercial quota, or poaching or anything else that isn't staring us right in the mirror...it is to cut mortality.

We need to DEMAND that our State Directors reduce mortality NOW. We need to stop blaming anyone and reduce killing as many Stripers and then protect the chit out of our forage base.

LEt's get it right. We are still above stock targets on Striped Bass. There are problems but there are always problems.

Look at that chart again. In he years the catches were highest the bulk of those fish were small. Go back and check posts about the West wall, The Narrows in Buttermilk Bay, the bulk of the fly fishing boom. It was all fueled by little fish and high liners were complaining there were not enough large. Now there are a bunch of large but the small are hard to find.

You can only support so much life in a finite space. Especially when forage is in bad shape and water is warning and...and...and.

Stop Whining and call your State Director...Are you committed enough to force by way of numbers a change or are we going to blog and whine and never make the calls needed to stop the bleeding now.

Call your state Director.


There will be analysis that will help clarify what must be done to

[robc22]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

We (recreational advocates) claim the recreational numbers are bogus and that is the heart and soul of what drove the registry/license move along the coast. The new system is not yet in place and I for one agree with Kenny that there are way more fish caught by our community than the numbers show.

IF this is true then the numbers are skewed and there are more fish than we think as well...I state this because the number of reported fish is a part of how the overall amount is calculated.

On a related note and a far more accurate (in many more educated than myself's) opinion, the young of the year index has been on a significant decline. There has been a prpediction for at least five years that there would be a lot less maller fish and that is absolutely true.

The same scientific modeling state there are more large available and all we all know the last few years have seen an almost unbelievable amount of supercows.

We also now KNOW that Mycobacteriosis is spreading and that a lack of quality forage is part of that problem...according to scientists not me or other fishermen.

We also know that as the numbers of fish skyrocketed the recreational catch went through the ceiling and the commercial catch got one small bump and it was small.

Now that the recreational catch is falling responsible management is not to just blame the commercial quota, or poaching or anything else that isn't staring us right in the mirror...it is to cut mortality.

We need to DEMAND that our State Directors reduce mortality NOW. We need to stop blaming anyone and reduce killing as many Stripers and then protect the chit out of our forage base.

LEt's get it right. We are still above stock targets on Striped Bass. There are problems but there are always problems.

Look at that chart again. In he years the catches were highest the bulk of those fish were small. Go back and check posts about the West wall, The Narrows in Buttermilk Bay, the bulk of the fly fishing boom. It was all fueled by little fish and high liners were complaining there were not enough large. Now there are a bunch of large but the small are hard to find.

You can only support so much life in a finite space. Especially when forage is in bad shape and water is warning and...and...and.

Stop Whining and call your State Director...Are you committed enough to force by way of numbers a change or are we going to blog and whine and never make the calls needed to stop the bleeding now.

Call your state Director.


There will be analysis that will help clarify what must be done to

[buckman]

I think the problem is not the number of fish but where the food has been located. There has been a growing population of Bass offshore. Lots of food out there. There are so many bass on the tuna grounds it's amazing and yet the usual places we hit in early June have sucked the last few years.

[MAKAI]

It's not what's out there now.

It's what's going to replace what's out there now.

To use a baseball analogy " The farm system is badly depleted "

It now takes 3 times the breeders to get the same YOY as it did 20 years ago

Be nice if our kids could catch bass like we do now.


Make the calls

[BasicPatrick]

Makai & Buckman....I could not agree more!!!!!

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by buckman

I think the problem is not the number of fish but where the food has been located. There has been a growing population of Bass offshore. Lots of food out there. There are so many bass on the tuna grounds it's amazing and yet the usual places we hit in early June have sucked the last few years.

This is true all the way down the coast to nc where those fish are out to 13 miles... Just think, even all those fish th NC Trawlers are decimating this year there has been absolutely no Surf Run. Those guys in the outerbanks havent had a surf run since the early 2000's. I remember running down there and the Bass and blues chasing pogies on the beach... Remember chunking hatteras point... Its a thing of the past, almost been a decade. The only reason we have had a surf run off NJ the last few years is there have been schools of pogies on the beach in certain conditions. You take that away like you have up the coast and thats over too. I spend all my time in the spring run 2-2.99 miles out.. If it was legal Id be out further with the fish.

[MakoMike]

I'll just add to Basic Patrick's note that if you want the mortality reduced you should not only contact you state director but also your states representatives on the ASMFC. Each state has three reps on the ASMFC.

[numbskull]

Patrick and Kenny,

I challenge you to read last winter's striped bass technical report...attachment 4, (page 10 is the summary). Here is the link http://striped-bass.com/striper-fish...SBtcReport.pdf

It shows that the ASMFC technical committee believes that recreational catch numbers are actually OVER-ESTIMATED by 50-75%.

The ASMFC (after having NOAA review the issue) has decided not to change their estimate.......but at very least both of you should be aware that there is strong reason to believe the recreational catch is actually smaller than the commercial catch.

So will you read it?

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I dont know about the statistics but my catches have not dropped off in the last 5 years, to the contrary, i have caught more fish also larger fish. One of my concerns is that last year i noticed a startling lack of schoolies, i think i caught 2-3 fish under 20".

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Patrick and Kenny,

I challenge you to read last winter's striped bass technical report...attachment 4, (page 10 is the summary). Here is the link http://striped-bass.com/striper-fish...SBtcReport.pdf

It shows that the ASMFC technical committee believes that recreational catch numbers are actually OVER-ESTIMATED by 50-75%.

The ASMFC (after having NOAA review the issue) has decided not to change their estimate.......but at very least both of you should be aware that there is strong reason to believe the recreational catch is actually smaller than the commercial catch.

So will you read it?

Arent these NOAA statistics actually reported by fishermen via countmyfish.gov through these new licenses we are supposed to have??? 2010 was the first year they did this? There is no way you will get me to believe the Com Catch is greater than rec up and down the coast look at the quotas then compare to how many charter / headboats/ Party Boats fish 7 days a week for 3-8months of the season depending which state and then throw in the thousands, and thousands of Rec Guys... I know you can take a dozen charterboat captains and they probably kill as many fish that are equivelent to some Comm quotas. Seriously, look at some of the people out there fishing, you think they are all reporting their catch... Numbers are way Higher not lower...
Im in now way defending Coms, just dont think its fair to put all the blame on them when Recs are to blame too. No way do I agree with the shamefull trawling and netting and intentional waste / discard of Bass down in MD, VA, NC...

[BasicPatrick]

George...

The TC also stated clearly that the mortality that would result form a 10% increase in the commercial quota would NOT impact the overall biomass. Thank God the managers chose to not increase mortality with a commercial bump.

I will read it again and post back. I think you have something confused in the report.

I still don't understand what point you feel this would change. One of my large points is that a proposal must be able to get passed or it is a waste of time. Politics trumps both science and common sense...all the time.

AND SINCE THOSE THAT CARE WON:T SPEND #^&#^&#^&#^& ON ADVOCACY AND PROFESSIONAL LOBBY... WE BETTER PROPOSE ITEMS THAT ARE REALISTIC

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Arent these NOAA statistics actually reported by fishermen via countmyfish.gov through these new licenses we are supposed to have??? d netting and intentional waste / discard of Bass down in MD, VA, NC...

NO. Recreational numbers are made up by charter boat statistics, that are relatively accurate based on reliable sampling, and non-charter catch, that is extremely inaccurate and based on fishing effort and catch rate estimates obtained by angler sampling. The Technical committee report I gave you the link to above explains that there is good reason to believe these estimates are wildly overblown and the huge recreational catch numbers (that you and others use to chastise concerned recreational fishermen, and defend continued commercial catch quotas) are in fact pure fantasy.

It is important to realize that the ASMFC does not care, however, about what percentage of the catch is recreational, and what percentage is commercial..........they care about total catch and total population.

Since they have good reason to suspect that recreational fishing pressure is much less than the number they are using, they have good reason to suspect the fishery can handle more commercial take, hence their move to increase the commercial take.
Now keep in mind they wanted to increase the commercial take by 10%.
Yet they suspect the recreational catch is 50% over estimated.
That suggests that 100% of the non-charter recreational catch equals about 20% of the commercial catch......or that commercial landings are FIVE TIMES larger than NON-CHARTER recreational landings.

Now you can argue that charter fishing is recreational fishing, but the bottom line.......which fits my experience........is that the average schmuck recreational guys that make up 90% of the people using the resource end up killing a much smaller total share of the resource than the small number of guys making money off the fish.

Gamefish anyone?

[Saltheart]

This post is not to bitch about cmms or recs or our reps on the committees , etc. I think everyone is doing their best and its no good to point fingers and argue amongst ourselve.

What I want to comment on is the validity of the numbers that the surveyors get.

I used to be all over from the CT breachway to Napatree back when I used to get the oversand permit. I spent a lot of time down there and I also cruised all the beaches from Ninigret to Misquamicut (actually decided to delete some of the places we fished , both for our own good and for the good of the spots ) Anyway , we put our time in.

One weekend I was down there with my friend Chris who also used to come up all the time. Now we were into everything from eels to pogie heads , every lure under the sun , all the odball stuff like balloons , hooking the eels in the tail got tried and real good stugg like rigging them etc , we worked hard and listened while at the tackle shops , etc. We did as well as anybody was doing out there. Well one weekend we were there the whole weekend round the clock. We caught almost nothing. We also had lots of friends who were serious fisherman and would ask how they did and did they see anyone else catching , etc , etc. the whole point is that weekend , all the regular fisherman who were there all day and all night caught sqwat. Well Sunday morning about 8 AM , we were standing near the truck drinking our morning coffee and a surveyor came along. He asked us about our catch that weekend , how often we went , etc , etc. We told him we fished all the time and knew the whole game but we caught sqwat that whole weekend. He thanked us and indicated it was nice to get an honest answere from some guys who obviously fished a lot and were not screwing up his survey by lying about fish we didn't get.

Well then he goes over to this bunch of guys who had been showing up mid morning for the weekend , mostly tangling everyones lines and talking more than fishing. These guys could not catch a fish unless the typical monster blitz came drifting by and they just happened to hit a fish in the head with a multi treble hooked popper. So we listen as these know nothings , catch nothings, start telling the surveyor about how they each caught a dozen fish every day all weekend. Now we were there and we saw these guys fishing every morning and they got zip. No way , even if they fished 10 more weekends , they were not going to catch anything at all.

So now the surveyor has interviewed 6 guys total (me , Chris and these 4 fishless wonders) , 2 say almost nothing caught , 4 say they got 48 fish a day between them , and did that each day .

So now these six interviews get worked by the statistics of how many guys , say 100 in the general area , times an average of 8 fish per guy (Their lied about 48 divided by the 6 total fisherman) so the end product of the survey would show that based on a statistical sampling , there were 800 fish caught per 100 people fishing. Now maybe they estimate a 1000 fisherman along the whole coast that weekend so now the lied about 48 fish ends up about 8000 recreational fish caught in the quota calculations that weekend based on the surveys.

Now I'm not complaining about the surveyor as he was doing his best , etc , etc. The fact is that recreational catch totals are based on interviews and surveys and estimates. The baseline data around which all the estimates and statistics rely upon are info from fisherman who as a whole lie through their teeth about how many and how big they caught.

So anyway , the rec numbers are based on surveys that gather info from lying SOB's.

So i agree with the ASMFC tech committee that rec numbers are overestimated by 50%. Now what that does to the overall picture , I don't know.

I did see a guy on the cable the other night on Cox Channel 15 who had all kinds of data on fin and shelfish and historical comparisons and the decline of lobsters and the rise of crabs and the way the catch followed but lagged the biomass data by a couple of years , etc. Worth watching so maybe check your listing to see if they replay that 9they often do). His stats on the bass was that we had a miraculous recovery but that things were trending downward again and he hoped the committees would reduce the catch before the striper stock collapsed again rather than wait until after it happened.

1 fish a day for recs , I don't really care what size it is. I think size has offsetting effects. Allow lower you lose more fish , allow higher you lose better breeders. So that's why I say 1 fish , let the experts decide on size.

[WoodyCT]

Can anyone tell me if the new license system will include a mechanism to collect catch/kill data from all licensed anglers?

Seems to me a mandatory (make participation necessary to be eligible for the following season's license?) weekly online angler survey would go a long way toward gathering real data on effort, catch, and release.
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