Sad

So you don't believe in commercial fishing for stripers either. Cause that is exactly what a commercial license is doing, giving you the right to catch more fish then the general public.

Sorry Numbskull, just how it is for the most part... I know there are those that practice C&R, Unfortunately I rarely see it...

Yes for 18-21 days or so in Mass u can keep and sell 30 a day..On the other hand I can fish stripers 12 months a year recreationally if I wanted to, and in NJ we can buy bonus tags and keep an extra fish every day till the quota is filled, 360,000lbs or so.. I can run 2 charters a day in NJ and come back to the dock with boat limits of 8-10 fish, (Even more if everyone has a tag 12-15)a trip, 7 days a week during the season... Now you guys up north dont see pressure, you should see the 100's of NY,NJ boats for miles that will make the MA com rod and reelers look like a tiny speck... Yeah we can go on.
Knock down the rec catch to one fish.. The com catch I could care less what they do, but it aint going away so Ill fish it, after all its gonna get filled with or without me anyway, (Or you can sit home like Sandman and Complain About it), at least there is a quota and the season is closed when its hit. Recreationally its on 7 days a week, 12 months a year from ME to NC with a few closed areas during seasons....
All there is is Finger Pointing and Blaming Others instead of fixing the problem. Sounds like Democrats and Republicans!

I know there are exceptions.... Unfortunately I dont see many of them...

So in a nutshell it's time to stop talking and push for a moratorium since we can't seem to get those that still want it all to do whats needed.Catch an release period. Till things are fixed. Then no commercial fishing period for them and if needed a limit of 2 fish per charter for charter boats to cut down the rediculous waste off Jearsy and Virginia.Since as a group we can't seem to get beyond the greed and selfishness maybe there are enough of us that can push the issue so we have a tomorrow. Before it's too late.There are some damn good fishermen on this site and several others. None of us would be worth a damn at it without the fish. Ron

I wish you all the best of Luck, Probably may want to Look into Stripersforever or something along with your state and federal governments. I personally think it will be a little tough for you to get a moratorium based on your research from books and statistics at this stage especially with Easily filled Com Quotas and Rec Catches in the several hundreds of thousands, (I think recently the netters down in NC dumped around 20,000, (You gave that figure) dead bass into the ocean because they were over their limits a bit). You also have to prove that all these scientists dont know what they are doing and they are wrong. Remember, just this year they wanted to increase commercial quotas by 10 percent...
While you are at it You may also want to consider doing something about the Bait problem in New England, those fish will need a sustainable food supply and there really isnt much around inshore. Down here in NJ and LI the Bunker boats were kicked offshore, not allowed in the Bays. Its one of the reasons we have enjoyed such Fantastic runs of fish the last few years! Its nice to have miles of bunker along the beaches and bays....

Rob that is exactly the point. There are no small fish and we continue to kill the big fish. This what happened in the 70s. Your post is a model of the 70s.

If there is a problem at all, its a problem with recruitment, the YOY survey has been low for several years now. No one knows exactly what is causing the problem with recruitment but it certainly has nothing to do with fishing mortality. We have enough spawning stock biomass. Problems are most likely due to environmental conditions in the Chessie and weather.

More eggs in the water can't be a bad thing , can it ?

Till our molasses slow goverment agencies can get their collective acts together to work out the real issues and data.

I've read a number of theories on this, many of them allude to the mycobacteriosis problem in the bay.

Opinions vary... some say that the females are more greatly affected, as they contract the disease while in the bay, and the stress of migration does them in.

Another interesting one was that the males are the most heavily affected... Theory states that females need X number of males in close proximity to them in order for spawning to be triggered... If the males aren't there (dead, not moving/lethargic due to infection) then the females simply won't spawn. You can have plenty of big girls, but no eggs are getting spewed.

Unfortunately I don't have the links bookmarked, if I find them I'll put them up.

Any way you look at it, recruitment is probably the most pressing concern at this time.

Mako and Jack,finally two people that see what the real problem is.you can have all the bass in the world if they don't have sucessful spawn there is no future,no matter how few we kill.

Some of the comments here make me want to puke.
I am ashamed to be even loosely associated with you thru SB or simply by being called a fishermen.

Everyone (including you) have a responsibility to conserve this great fish for future generations...just because you can take the fish doesn't mean you should.

You hang out with the wrong crowd if you don't know anyone who is fishing solely to catch his "legal limit"

One of the proudest moment as a farther figure/sportsmen for me was when my 12 yo son said (as we were hammering big bass one night drifting eels in Quicks)..Dad, these fish are really big...we only need one fish, lets let the others go. He got the idea at 12... why can't you? Maybe it is in the genes...I don't know.:confused: I am just an old man who has lost his mind I guess.:confused:

one of my proudest moments was eating the first keeper my son caught.i guess as i see it if i am going to fish for it i am going to eat it.nothing worse than killing some for the sport of it,just my opinion

I agree that as long as there is a commercial harvest you might just as well take advantage of it. Being from NJ and fishing the Highlands area every year I am well aware of the number of charters and the party boats also targeting stripers. I'm aware of the numbers of fish recs kill compared to commercial. I went to both the Mass and NH hearing on the commercial harvest increase to lobby against them and wrote letters and attended the recent herring hearings. I do not blame anyone other than ASMFC for what is happening. Their job is to manage the fishery in the best interest of the public and I think they are failing to do it. The big money from stripers and the greatest human factor comes from recreational fishing. If the stock numbers can only support a two fish limit for the public that would indicate to me that there are not enough fish to support a commercial fishery. If the public needs to be limited to one fish that is fine with me but is even more proof that there should be no commercial season. I'm not looking to turn the commercial harvest over to the recs like New Jersey did. I'm looking to reduce the catch by that amount. I also believe that stopping commercial fishing will stop most of what has recently happened in NC and Maryland. If you can not sell them it will greatly reduce these activities.

Maybe because NH people experience the stock drops earlier then others we are more sensitive to it. Most all of the people I know practice catch and release. Maybe keep one or two a season usually due to deep hooks. The NH members on the ASMFC striper board are also strong supports of reducing the catch.

I do also write letters and support other aspects of commercial fishing. I can not understand why there is no rec limit on haddock and some of the other ground fish. Why they don't set it at 10 like cod is beyond me. In this case I'm more than happy to give the extra fish to the commercial guys. For most fish, except maybe something like scup, once you go above 5 thats enough.

Well with the lack of small fish the 80's aren't far away. The charter pressure and bycatch pressure are huge now so the down spiral will start soon. Without little guys to replace whats caught of the cows the number of fish landed is going to drop in a lot more places besides just along the surf.So the glut isn't going to last long on the migration routes. Wonder what the excuses will be this time. Oh I remember the tournaments killed them all LOL what a joke some of what is posted is. Only thing different now than in the 70's is the names of those who don't want to do anything. Many of those calling for action now were around in the 60's to now and have seen this before and are worried as this time there are way more things in the way of restoration.Lack of money,way more seals along migration routes,worse bycatchmore sharks inshore and way more anglers. Ron

Sorry but I cant tell my clients that they have to throw everything back. Charter Boats, Head Boats, Party Boats have Paying customers that are paying to come on the boat, catch fish, and bring home meat and you cant blame them for it. Doesnt matter if its groundfish or SB. Yes I enjoy eating striped bass, sorry. I do kill some and I do let some go. I'm sorry everyone does not share the same beliefs as you do but everyone cant afford to just go out to fish for fun either....

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :bc . On every site u see the same thing +itching and moning. Do yourself a favor don't point ur finger at someone else. There is no I in team. I see as many dead fish on the rocks when i rec fish as i do when i com fish. I fish when the fish show up and fish til they leave. Personaly i think the recs kill way more fish. Go to the other site and watch someone post the canal was hot. Next day the road will be loaded with dead fish.:grins:. What about the striper cup lots of teams = lots lbs of dead pounds. I rather sell a 20lb fish for $ than see someone weight one in to win a $10 prize. Com go buy quota fill it its over. If they want to shut it down just get it over with and shut it down. Every winter we see the same thing com Bashing and recs clashing. The problem wont be solved if both sides dont agree with each other.

People do have to work together to make anything of value happen in the long run it is not a com problem or a rec problem it is an everyone problem. To say one group had to give everything up and the other is right is foolish. Fisherman whether they like it or not have to work within the current confines of the management system or get together and come to an agreement on something that works for everyone. Conservation is about the fish not the fishermen. Everyone will need to make concessions to move forward. Otherwise we will all sit here talking about it while nothing changes.
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Seems to me that what we have here is a failure to communicate. :)
"Conservation" means different things to different people and lets not confuse "conservation" with "allocation" Allocation meaning how much each sector, commercial vs recreational gets to catch. Conservation to some at one end of the spectrum seems to mean having the maximum number of fish in the water that nature can sustain. At the other end of the spectrum it seems to mean having enough fish in the water so that they can be easily caught. Neither is the basis for fishery management in this country!

Fishery management in this country is based on achieving and retaining a biomass (fish population) that is capable of providing the maximum sustainable yield (MSY). That is the most fish that can be caught year after year, and every year, without reducing the population of fish. The scientists come up with the figure for the biomass that will provide MSY. Then they do stock assessments which provide an estimate of the current biomass. Then the Acceptable Biological Catch (ABC) is estimated to either keep the biomass at MSY or rebuild it to the MSY biomass. The ABC is then adjusted by various factors to come up with the Annual Catch Limit (ACL) The regulations are then crafted using statistical models to meet the desired ACL.

The key take away for the purposes of this discussion is that the ACLs will be designed to keep the biomass at MSY. In the case of stripers the biomass is already above MSY, so there will be no tightening of the regulations. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't affect national policy unless and until you get your Congressmen and Senators to change the rules of the game. Right now the ASMFC would be breaking the law to enact stricter regulation on stripers.

You could say this is spending the money in the bank.

While our direct deposit is being reduced.

Is the Rec. total lbs caught, or lbs killed? Or is it considered one in the same?

That total is probably horrifically low. I for one have never had anyone come up to me at 2 in the morning to tally up my catch for the year.

Good analogy but (hopefully) a wrong conclusion. What we are supposed to be spending is the interest on the money in the bank and never touch the principal. We just have to hope they have the science right.

Hope ?

Now I am scared.
Just thinking how it turned out the last time someone told me to believe in Hope ( & change )

Better start taking golf lessons from Back Beach.

Problem is the MSY can be the most manipulated number of all of aspects of requlation. Even ASMFC guidelines allow for adjustment based on human factors. Plus they would not be breaking the law on this in that they can adjust the MSY. The only real hard number is if they drop below the target guidelines that forces them to take action but then target numbers will change as you adjust MSY.

Determining the MSY is based on so many factors the number is close to being a pull out of your butt number. The main factor being it has to be determined on the whole bio-mass rather then just stripers. If we were looking at reaching the MSY for just stripers we would stop all bunker fishing and reduce herring, mack and squid harvest to ensure a larger food supply for stripers so the ocean could support more. If we were looking to max out the MSY harvest of bunker we would try to kill all of the bluefish and stripers. Here is where ASMFC comes into play in that they are trying to set this balancing act. You do not need to have congress change anything. You need to get ASMFC to put more focus on increasing the major food fish (stripers, blues, fluke ..) MSY. This can be done by protecting the prey fish by recognizing that the MSY needs to be lower for them because we need them to feed the food fish to support higher MSY for them.

The Biomass necessary to support MSY is determined on a species for species basis. It is a finite number, there is no "max out" MSY, you are either over, under or at biomass MSY. That is true for fluke, blues, stripers and menhaden. Stripers are at a biomass over MSY, so no one is going to anything to reduce the fishing mortality on stripers. Fluke is at a biomass under MSY, so we will continue to see strict catch regulations until the biomass reaches MSY (which on target to be reached in 2013). The only "prey fish" that has a fishery management plan is Menhaden, and the menhaden biomass is at MSY, so don't expect any stricter regulations on Menhaden.

Both NMFS and ASMFC have been talking about regulating fisheries with an ecosystem approach for years, but so far neither of them has even taken a first step in that direction.

Yeah but...

I read that they changed they way they computed this number and if you used the previous method we would be well under the limit. I don't know how accurate this is but it was in the fishermen a year or so ago.

Hey I really don't care what their methodology is...it clearly is not working. Further, doing nothing in the face of year after year of serious catch/breading decline as well as other damaging issues and ignoring all while waiting to hit some "magic number" computed at a whim... is a form of malpractice, and then you blame it on the laws (that they help create!!) and how their hands are tied... is not a good excuse...

One thing for sure is they know how to play games with the system...look at fluke and the games they play to keep it open esp in NY...it becomes a political matter and there is posturing buy all sides with an interest in how much money they will loose...it is laughable. Shut it down if there is a problem. Period.

These are just a bunch of weak scientists playing in a sandbox. In my eyes they don't have much credibility and the fishery management people should all be jailed. I am not kidding, what they are doing to the fisheries in this country is criminal.


I bet if you reduced the countries fisheries staff to the salaries of 6 people with a goal to restore all fisheries in 10 years, and giving them the ultimate control, let them call all the shots with no public comment, and answer only to one top guy, the problem could be fixed and we would save a boatload of money in the process.


Look, I can fix this SB thing right now, it is not hard and does not take huge enforcement nor tons of cash.

1) Gamefish status
2) 1@ 36 for rec's (with move to compete C&R if needed)
3) hard-core restoration of all forge fish. (this means shutting down mid water trawlers and many commercial bait operations probably permanently)

---do this and the sea will be rich in SB in 10 years---

wish list:
4) shut down all commercial indiscriminate net-fishing fishing operations inside of 12 miles of the shore.
5) no commercial boat can discard ANYTHING. It all must come back and be processed.

5) no commercial boat can discard ANYTHING. It all must come back and be processed.[/QUOTE]


That is so obvious it's stupid.
If it can be used it should be used.
Should never be crab food.

For you MAKAI, I'll do a half hour lesson for a darter. pm me :uhuh:

When you see my swing, it'll ruin yours.

I'm told it's contagious.

A pro I know saw it and he's been drinking hard ever since.

Trust me my friend, when you teach golf at a public driving range, do free clinics and all the other bs ive done, there isnt much I havent seen. Im sure we can do something about it. And if I suck at teaching and you still suck at golf, no brainer, we'll go fishing. And the pro you saw was just a half step behind, the trick is to drink BEFORE the lesson.:rotf2: