Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating
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Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating (http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/index.php)
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piemma 12-04-2011 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=Mr. Sandman;905160]Where is the Black market numbers in this?

AH HA!!

now you hit the real issue. If the Striper became a game fish then there would be no Black Market. You can't sell them in the Black market if they don't sell them legally. No restaurant owner would buy a fish that cannot be sold anywhere. Problem solved.

Make it a damn gamefish and stop the nonsense of arguing whose to blame. It don't matter who's to blame. Just stop the killing, make it C&R and the problem is solved. And all the comms, who I have no problem with making money on fish, should then go and kill scup.

Chesapeake Bill 12-04-2011 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull (Post 905238)
You are right, it didn't teach you correctly. Just saying.

A resource's value to the economy is not measured by the economic activity it generates. Buying fish at a fish store does not generate net economic value, since that money would be spent on some alternate food if the fish was not available. The net economic benefit if the alternate food costs the same is zero (if the fish is more expensive, as is usually the case, then the net economic benefit is negative).

The value of a national resource is measured by the net surplus (producer surplus and consumer surplus) it produces. This gets complicated, but basically the less I spend to catch or buy fish (i.e., use the fish for my needs), the more I have to spend on other needs.

This is why the usual economic garbage people post BOTH for or against commercial fishing is meaningless. That stuff (ie how much is spent) is called input-output analysis. It is useful for predicting what group of people in a region will benefit from a regulation change, but it has nothing to do with national economic value.

Any economic analysis that optimizes value of a resource, will always include some commercial activity. So if we are stupid enough to measure striped bass in a dollar value, commercial fishing makes sense. But striped bass, for most of us, have a different non-monetary value.....call it happiness value. Any analysis that optimizes that for the greatest number of people will favor gamefish status for striped bass.

There are numerous saltwater fish that can be caught and sold commercially. For the recreational community to ask for a single species that is protected for their use simply reflects normal people trying to optimize the happiness in their lives. That pursuit of happiness is a "god given right" according to our law. It does not require subservience to "economic value". Maybe you missed that in school?
Numby,

You are absolutely right. It is nice to discuss with someone who understands economics and how to properly perform an economic analysis rather than the self-serving seekers I typically talk to here on the Chesapeake (Where incidentally, striped bass can be caught commercially with very little effort of outlay--thus providing a significant economic return). However, "pursuit of happiness" is not the only reason to make a decision, just as economic considerations are not a sole reason. There has to be some balance. Unfortunately we live in a world where no one is willing to find balance. It is always easy to say that anyone can get a fishign rod and catch a striper if they want. However, that is not the case...unless our welfare program will now include paid bus trips and government issued fishing gear (now that's a program I'd like to run! "Sorry, Miss. You don't qualify for the 3 ounce darter but you can have a 1 ounce pencil"). Thus the answer lies somewhere in between. Not with gamefish status but with better allocation of the resources using sound science and proper public policy decisions...neither of which are likely to be available any time soon...but one can hope.

stripermaineiac 12-04-2011 08:21 PM
LOL And just how few commercial tickets are there in Mass. So roughly less than 1 % of the fishermen have a release lortality that is half what how many thousand sportfishermen have.Pat put the numbers in perspective. On the west coast less than 2% of the fishermen keep 98% of the Salmon landed.The other 98% are only allowed to keep 2%.When so few do so much damage compared to the whole it's time for it to stop.Misrepresenting the facts just don't make it anymore.We in Maine have lost a lot of our fishing due to this backwards thinking as they don't make it through the gauntlet between here an the spawning grounds.There are fewer commercial tickets than there are people that fish the Vineyard Derby and the great majority of them aren't even used so the real damage is being done by an even smaller number.Funny but a handfull killing 6% is pretty sad in my book.

MakoMike 12-05-2011 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BasicPatrick (Post 905146)
Not giving an opinion but here are the actual numbers backed up by the best available science and actually being used to manage the fishery are as follows.

We all agree the science sucks but it is what it is and it is the SAME SCIENTIFIC METHODS USED DURING THE REBUILDING. All I am saying is that your positions should at least make some sense when compared to the numbers.

2010 Striped Bass Fishery
Commercial Discard Mortality 6%
Commercial Landings 27%
Recreational Discard Mortality 14%
Recreational Landings 53%


MA anglers catch between 3 & 6 million SB per year

MA anglers keep 300,000 SB per year

MA anglers release between 2.7 & 5.7 million fish per year

MA anglers dead discard is between 240,000 & 500,000 SB per year
Those numbers are even more skewed, in the other direction when it comes to cod. So now with the cod crisis would you guys argue that cod should be a commercial species only?

Thumper 12-05-2011 12:05 PM
Personally I don't think we will every see game fish status, there is just to much money involved.
Plus how many out there are going to ask for increased limits because there will be no commercial pressure?


1@36in across the board...

Saltheart 12-05-2011 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Rock On (Post 905121)
You're forgetting that the commercial fishermen provides 100% of the population the opportunity to eat these fish. Recreational striper fisherman represent less than 1% of the population but kill the majority of the fish, mostly for fun. So supporting Stripers for Dinner instead of radical groups like PETA and Stripers Forever is far better for over 99% of the population.
I hear this all the time from the commercial fisherman. Providing fish to 99% of the population. this sounds like a public service but in fact , in return for so much money per pound , commercial fisherman, ditributors and even the markets form a supply chain. Its fish for money. Now do you really think someone who goes to the market and buys the fish for $10 a pound is more "entitled" to the fish than a guy who gets up at 4am and goes down and catches the fish?

To "supply the masses" of consumers , commercial fishing should be commecial fish farming. Just like chicken and beef , the fish should be farmed. To think that a commercial guy is entitled to a bigger share of the pie because he sells his fish and it gets distributed is a good way of taking away the focus that an individual commercial fisherman gets more than his share (his share not the consumer market share) of the fish.

Anyway , I am not anti com fishing but lets not play games that they are doing a public service providing fish to the population. Its a business and they take fish and sell it for money.

Mike P 12-05-2011 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltheart (Post 905380)
I hear this all the time from the commercial fisherman. Providing fish to 99% of the population. this sounds like a public service but in fact , in return for so much money per pound , commercial fisherman, ditributors and even the markets form a supply chain. Its fish for money. Now do you really think someone who goes to the market and buys the fish for $10 a pound is more "entitled" to the fish than a guy who gets up at 4am and goes down and catches the fish?

To "supply the masses" of consumers , commercial fishing should be commecial fish farming. Just like chicken and beef , the fish should be farmed. To think that a commercial guy is entitled to a bigger share of the pie because he sells his fish and it gets distributed is a good way of taking away the focus that an individual commercial fisherman gets more than his share (his share not the consumer market share) of the fish.

Anyway , I am not anti com fishing but lets not play games that they are doing a public service providing fish to the population. Its a business and they take fish and sell it for money.
The flaw in the logic in the quoted post is that the percentage of the population that eats commercially-caught striped bass is a lot closer to 1% of the population than 100%.

MakoMike 12-06-2011 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltheart (Post 905380)
I hear this all the time from the commercial fisherman. Providing fish to 99% of the population. this sounds like a public service but in fact , in return for so much money per pound , commercial fisherman, ditributors and even the markets form a supply chain. Its fish for money. Now do you really think someone who goes to the market and buys the fish for $10 a pound is more "entitled" to the fish than a guy who gets up at 4am and goes down and catches the fish?

To "supply the masses" of consumers , commercial fishing should be commecial fish farming. Just like chicken and beef , the fish should be farmed. To think that a commercial guy is entitled to a bigger share of the pie because he sells his fish and it gets distributed is a good way of taking away the focus that an individual commercial fisherman gets more than his share (his share not the consumer market share) of the fish.

Anyway , I am not anti com fishing but lets not play games that they are doing a public service providing fish to the population. Its a business and they take fish and sell it for money.
Do you labor for nothing? Do you give your stuff away? Why should fishermen who commercially fish do so for nothing? And remember the millions of dollars spent every year on striped bass management are supplied by the general public. How long do you think that will continue (especially in this economy) if the general public has no access to the fish?

JohnnyD 12-06-2011 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 905548)
Do you labor for nothing? Do you give your stuff away? Why should fishermen who commercially fish do so for nothing? And remember the millions of dollars spent every year on striped bass management are supplied by the general public. How long do you think that will continue (especially in this economy) if the general public has no access to the fish?
I think his point was that some people boast about the "public service" the commercial sector does by providing table fare to those that enjoy striped bass but do not fish, while minimizing how much they mention that they get paid for it.

I don't think any reasonable person would expect commercial fishermen to work for nothing. At the same time, they're doing no more of a public service than the gas station attendant who puts gas in your tank for money or the dentist who cleans your teeth for in exchange for a check.

stripermaineiac 12-06-2011 10:53 AM
LOL Mike you an many others seem to forget all the taxes paid on fishing tackle-Wallop Buereau tax -paid before it's sold plus all the usage fees and sales tax. we pay for it not the genera; public stop mis representing the facts to try to make your point seem more valid.We pay our own way an the public gets huge benefits in access point paid for by all the fees we pay.Commercial fishing is so over subsidised now that it takes 5 yrs of income to repay one years subsidy.All you need to do is go into the government budget and the figures tell the story.

MakoMike 12-07-2011 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 905564)
LOL Mike you an many others seem to forget all the taxes paid on fishing tackle-Wallop Buereau tax -paid before it's sold plus all the usage fees and sales tax. we pay for it not the genera; public stop mis representing the facts to try to make your point seem more valid.We pay our own way an the public gets huge benefits in access point paid for by all the fees we pay.Commercial fishing is so over subsidised now that it takes 5 yrs of income to repay one years subsidy.All you need to do is go into the government budget and the figures tell the story.
Nice try nut all of those Wallop Breaux taxes get plowed back into recreational fishing, the "public" never see a dime of it. Which do you think raises more sales tax sale of recreational fishing gear or the sale of those tons of fish in the fish markets?

RIROCKHOUND 12-07-2011 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 905825)
Nice try nut all of those Wallop Breaux taxes get plowed back into recreational fishing, the "public" never see a dime of it. Which do you think raises more sales tax sale of recreational fishing gear or the sale of those tons of fish in the fish markets?
Probably depends if you take out Lobster, Scallops, Surf Clams etc.. and just left finfish...

Mike P 12-07-2011 03:21 PM
Many states don't impose sales tax on food purchases.

tunaless greg 12-07-2011 04:01 PM
The debate will never be decided so
 
Do like they do for RSA's and make all users buy their fish. You will create one market for striped bass. Whether you are rec, commercial or a charter boat, you have to buy your fish, get your tags (like many have recommended) and you decide what you keep for the year. Every kept fish has to have a tag. It works pretty well on the commercial side in ny. So the market will determine this argument. If the bass are going for $20 a fish, and a commercial guy can get $50 a fish, he will buy more tags. if the rec guys drive the price of a tag to $100, well the commercial or charter will probably buy less. The # of tags is the tac for the yr, divided by average weight of the fish. So on the mass commercial side we get a million pounds, avg sale weight, call it 20 pounds= 50,000 tags. Add that to the what the rec side gets (estimated) and call it 200,000 tags. Create some limitations so no one can corner the market, and the govt has now maximized the value of the resource. All the users will have to adapt. I know no one like this, but it is the fair, american way to do it.

JohnnyD 12-07-2011 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunaless greg (Post 905888)
The # of tags is the tac for the yr, divided by average weight of the fish. So on the mass commercial side we get a million pounds, avg sale weight, call it 20 pounds= 50,000 tags. Add that to the what the rec side gets (estimated) and call it 200,000 tags. Create some limitations so no one can corner the market, and the govt has now maximized the value of the resource. All the users will have to adapt. I know no one like this, but it is the fair, american way to do it.
Cue anyone with deep enough pockets registering 100 LLC's and purchasing the maximum number of tags they can under each.

I support a tagging program for recreation fishing and *required* weekly reporting by charter boats. The commercial guys already have to report their catch. People will definitely under-report, just like people sell to the back door of a restaurant, but it will limit the recs who take their limit every chance they can and it will provide more accurate estimates on the number of bass killed.

stripermaineiac 12-07-2011 06:56 PM
Nice try Mike. what the recs spend each yr is probably 3 times what the commercial industry even comes close to especially with all the government subsidies they get.Last figures were somewheres around over a few billion just on the east coast.The only time commercial guys rent a motel room is to follow a school of fish to wipe out.MMMMM Like Chatham this yr.As far as where the money goes it's nice to see all those peirs built that are used by commercials that are paid for out of that money.

MakoMike 12-08-2011 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 905917)

I support a tagging program for recreation fishing and *required* weekly reporting by charter boats. The commercial guys already have to report their catch. People will definitely under-report, just like people sell to the back door of a restaurant, but it will limit the recs who take their limit every chance they can and it will provide more accurate estimates on the number of bass killed.
All charter boats that hold a federal license are already required to report on each trip. I'd guesstimate that close to 100% of charter boats hold a federal license.

MakoMike 12-08-2011 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 905951)
.As far as where the money goes it's nice to see all those peirs built that are used by commercials that are paid for out of that money.
The Wallop-Breaux funds can ONLY be used for recreational fishing purposes.

JohnnyD 12-08-2011 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike (Post 906082)
All charter boats that hold a federal license are already required to report on each trip. I'd guesstimate that close to 100% of charter boats hold a federal license.
Thank you for the info. I was unaware. This validates putting them into a completely separate class even more because they are treated like completely separate entities in just about every aspect of fishing.

Since charters are required to report, does anyone have a source for the number of fish landed by charters last year?

riff_raff 12-08-2011 04:04 PM
I once agreed with Stipers Forever. Admittedly I did not really understand the fishery at the time.

The thing about the commercial fishery on Stripers, at least in MA, is it's very limited, with a hard well-regulated quota, and is completely open to the public (even out of state residents).

So for starters it's not a privileged few taking more than their fair share, it's open to anyone who's interested enough to buy permits. If you are not interested in joining the ranks, then don't, but it's completely open to the public (and I applaud MA for this).

It's also a drop in the bucket compared the recreational fishery (especially when you start considering release mortality) and is a unique opportunity for a small boat or shore fisherman to make a few bucks with rod in hand. It'd be nice if there were more of such opportunities that didn't require a big boat budget & commitment.

I'm not saying it's wrong, but the worst thing for the Striper is the serial catch-and-release fisherman. For 4 months+ out of the year a guy who's good with artificials or flys can go catch 30 fish a trip. That class of fisherman alone does far more damage than the 2 week commercial season, and there's no good way to curb their mortality.. And of course those same C&R fisherman all think they are taking the high ground, and are of the sort to support things like Stripers Forever..

Some people are really rubbed the wrong way by part time commercial fishing, I don't get it. Anyway, provided the health of the Striper remains intact, and it's done sustainably as it has, I see no issue with a well regulated commercial Striper fishery, especially when it remains small compared to the recreational fishery. If we hit a point when it needs to go back to 1 fish @ 36 inches for sustainability, then it will probably make sense to suspend the commercial season. Until then I'm all for it.

Jon

Saltheart 12-08-2011 04:53 PM
I think the C+R mortality rate is way over stated by the Com side. We fish jigs , almost always get a mouth hook , release the fish immediately and seldom actually pick up big ones to dangle from their lips. Done right , catch and release can have a very low mortality rate. Lastly , if by chance a C+R guy does get a fish that's likely mortally wounded , that fish becomes one of the two or three they keep every year.

The huge majority of receational fisherman are lucky to catch a striper or two all year. I have been doing it for a very long time and I know many guys who catch nothing or maybe a fish or two in the fall. If you subtract the Recs who can not and do not catch fish , you probably are dealing with less than half of the estimated number of recreational striper fisherman.

riff_raff 12-08-2011 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltheart (Post 906144)
I think the C+R mortality rate is way over stated by the Com side. We fish jigs , almost always get a mouth hook , release the fish immediately and seldom actually pick up big ones to dangle from their lips. Done right , catch and release can have a very low mortality rate. Lastly , if by chance a C+R guy does get a fish that's likely mortally wounded , that fish becomes one of the two or three they keep every year.

The huge majority of receational fisherman are lucky to catch a striper or two all year. I have been doing it for a very long time and I know many guys who catch nothing or maybe a fish or two in the fall. If you subtract the Recs who can not and do not catch fish , you probably are dealing with less than half of the estimated number of recreational striper fisherman.
Well, there's definitely a learning curve on stripers but that's pretty bad if you are only catching a fish or two. Even the googans throwing chunks and clams into the surf on 2 ounce bank sinkers, that eventually just wash up on the beach, tend to catch a few fish a day (albeit small fish).

I've done lots of striper fishing with leadhead bucktail jigs and various rubbers from shore. I really enjoy it in the spring; it's far from harmless though. My experience is 20% of the fish or so get hooked deep in the throat. How many of them die is anyone's guess.

Average tide early season like that is probably only a couple fish, but when it's on you can easily catch 20. Guys willing to wade into the water (not me, if I'm going in it's by boat) do alot better. Some seem to be there every tide, catching schoolie after schoolie on flys and various artificial's.

A different catch and release crowd shows up once the season gets going, a fleet flyroddin shallow water in the early AM - same deal, schoolie after schoolie.. They actually seem to be targeting the small fish - and that goes on for months.

All that C&R does produce mortality, and it's on a huge scale for a long season. I firmly believe that the numbers showing commercial striper fishing is a drop in the bucket are correct.

Jon

JohnnyD 12-08-2011 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by riff_raff (Post 906136)
Some people are really rubbed the wrong way by part time commercial fishing, I don't get it. Anyway, provided the health of the Striper remains intact, and it's done sustainably as it has, I see no issue with a well regulated commercial Striper fishery, especially when it remains small compared to the recreational fishery. If we hit a point when it needs to go back to 1 fish @ 36 inches for sustainability, then it will probably make sense to suspend the commercial season. Until then I'm all for it.

Jon
You're joking right?

numbskull 12-08-2011 07:57 PM
If I'm a striper, I like my chances one helluva lot better getting caught by some dude with a fly rod than by any other method out there.

riff_raff 12-09-2011 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 906167)
You're joking right?
What do you mean by that? From what I'm reading, and what I'm seeing, things are fine. The only thing I've heard (and I've yet to see it really backed up) is there may be a decline, possibly just due to normal cycles, of schoolie sized fish. The current year classes coming down south are massive, in a few years we'll be inundated with small fish again.

For sure there are plenty of large fish around, they just may not be where you are expecting them. Take a cruise through Stellwagen up in a tower during the summer. Huge schools of large striped bass just outside of state waters, some years for whatever reason it happens. When tuna fishing at times they've been practically as bad as dogfish.

My night bite sucked last season; lots of small fish 25 - 30 inches, the bruisers just didn't want to gather for our boats, and we spent a lot time running away from little fish and searching, although some guys were doing well. During the day though the bite in rips of the Merrimack was outstanding with plenty of large fish available. So, they were around, just not where we always wanted them to be. Bite in the rips was probably was similar at night, but I try and avoid fishing rips at night. Commercial season was more of an open water bite up my end. Anyway, plenty of fish, just some of the patterns changed, and it makes people think there's a problem.

Jon

riff_raff 12-09-2011 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by numbskull (Post 906192)
If I'm a striper, I like my chances one helluva lot better getting caught by some dude with a fly rod than by any other method out there.
So you'd rather inhale a small "J" hook, possibly deep depending on nothing more than luck, and then are played out until exhaustion on light tackle?

I think I'd rather be one of those bass that hits a squid bar with a 14/0 Jobu, planed out on a 130, and released in 45 seconds ;)..

Back to the point, when you are talking commercial versus recreational the difference is small numbers of fish targeted and harvested over a short season versus large numbers of fish caught and injured over an entire season.

Commercial fishing is over and done with in 2-3 weeks; legal sized fish are targeted, harvested, the quota is filled, and it's over. It might appear wrong to see tote after tote of dead stripers heading to market, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction.

Even if you completely discount release mortality (which on the recreational side more fish actually die post-release than are harvested while on the commercial side it's only 10%), the harvest on the rec side is something like 7X the commercial fishery. If you count release mortality it's >15X the commercial fishery.

Why focus your attention on the something that accounts for < 10% of the total Striper mortality? I'm not saying it needs to be fixed, but the real issue in the northeast Striper fishery (if there was one) would be mortality generated by Catch and Release fishing. It accounts for more dead Stripers than the commercial and recreational harvest combined.

Jon

stripermaineiac 12-09-2011 12:46 AM
So your saying that your illegally fishing for stripers in the protected waters of the EEZ.Those fish have been there for yrs and it's one of the schools that we're trying to protect. So they don't get wiped out like the other schools have. When hard cores up n down the coast aren't seeing fish there's a problem. just cause your sittin on a protected school in waters that are closed to striper fishing doesn't mean the fishery is in good shape.Your sounding like one of those charter guys in jearsy an Virginia that head out to closed waters an hammer big wintering stripers then as soon as they see enforsement people coming cut the bellys open and throw the fish over board.An thats ok as long as they don't get caught ask them they'll tell you that. about like you fishing for stripers in the EEZ.

stripermaineiac 12-09-2011 12:49 AM
Oh an by the way you seem to overlook the real numbers when it comes to parety. commercial striper fishermen aren't even a fraction of a percent of those fishing for stripers. so the true damge by such a small group is actually pretty Da- large.

riff_raff 12-09-2011 01:04 AM
Learn to read man. If I'm out on the bank they are a nuisance fish (ie I equated them to dogfish). We don't target them, we actually end up running because they'll endlessly hammer all our live baits.

The fact that Stellwagen is protected has nothing to do with the reason there are numbers of fish there. These things have tails and they migrate, and sometimes it's not into your historical honey hole. for whatever reason (wish I knew) sometimes more seem to decide to spend the season offshore rather than head into the harbors, rivers, and bays..

Again, the commercial fishery is open to anyone who wants in. Some years it's more than others. If you want in, join the party, else don't hate just 'cause you can't catch a Striper > 34 inches.

Jon

stripermaineiac 12-09-2011 01:13 AM
Sounds like another boat fisherman that's never walked the surf. As far as size goes well I'll match my 50's to yours anyday LOL.An I'm not talkin inches either LOL. Most of them came from place no boat can go.

riff_raff 12-09-2011 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 906218)
Sounds like another boat fisherman that's never walked the surf. As far as size goes well I'll match my 50's to yours anyday LOL.An I'm not talkin inches either LOL. Most of them came from place no boat can go.
Inches and lbs practically the same thing with fish that size.. Lots of > 40 lb fish, never a 50.

Yep boat fisherman for sure, only learned how to catch the early season schoolies that way (I think it's easier from the beach than from a boat).

You can cover alot more ground in a boat though, like I said, the fish seem to be around just not always where we want them to be.

Jon

Chesapeake Bill 12-09-2011 06:51 AM
"Only guys that fish from shore should be able to fish." "Only fly fisherman should be able to keep stripers." "The big bag commercial guys are greedy and doing all the damage."

Sounds like Occupy S-B here...

You can tell it is off season. Think I'll go out and catch another one or two today...6 more days to our season and big fish are here.

MAKAI 12-09-2011 08:08 AM
Todays word of the day kids, is "Braggadocio".

Can anyone use it in a sentence ? I need to go stick a pencil in my eye. :rollem:

stripermaineiac 12-09-2011 08:15 AM
LOL

Mr. Sandman 12-09-2011 09:08 AM
:deadhorse:

Enough. This is like arguing with a bunch of wasted sped students.

Mike P 12-09-2011 10:06 AM
I fish jigs and plastic almost exclusively. If I deep hooked 20% of what I hooked, I'd have to re-think my approach. I'd say that 97% to 99% of the fish I land are jaw hooked. And when they inhale it, they're hooked in the roof of the mouth, in the hard cartilege, not in the gills. If you're deep hooking 20% of what you land on jigs, with all due respect, you're doing something wrong. Maybe you're fishing mono and don't feel them until they have it swallowed?

If by "rubber" you mean those small Storm or Tsunami swim shads, yeah, fish inhale them. If you care about what you release, don't use them or at least crush the barb. Or use the ones that are 6" to 9" and target bigger fish.

Fly Rod 12-09-2011 10:44 AM
those of you who think that fly fishing for stripers is the way to go, "Are So Wrong."

Fly fishing puts more stress on a fish then any other way of recreational fishing. They stress that fish out by the time it is landed. Most take three times as long to bring a fish to shore.

riff_raff.... You make a lot of sense, so most will not agree with you.
Out beyond the three mile limit stripers are as much a nuisance as dogfish. Shore fishermen will always complain that they do not catch enough big fish. They never will.

Fly Rod 12-09-2011 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P (Post 906267)
I fish jigs and plastic almost exclusively. If I deep hooked 20% of what I hooked, I'd have to re-think my approach. I'd say that 97% to 99% of the fish I land are jaw hooked.

I use an off set hook and my percentage of lip hooked fish is like yours.

Fly Rod 12-09-2011 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripermaineiac (Post 906218)
Sounds like another boat fisherman that's never walked the surf.
I walked the rocky shore many times, maybe more then you. you can't beat the boat fishing. :)

stripermaineiac 12-09-2011 11:49 AM
Well I doubt it but thats ok.LOL I've done the boat thing too. Nicer out on the rocks in the middle of the night. No crowds some nice fish at times and its peacefull.But when you let that sweet fish swim away and she stays close by well it's something you never see on a boat.


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