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Where are the manufacturing plants though Spence? Off-shore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875490)

Hell, the North East is seeing a lot of growth in the aerospace industry keeps cranking out the orders for more aircraft.

-spence

Good news, but how will this continue when Obama wants to put more taxes
on Jet owning companies and individuals?

How will that help the little growth we are seeing in that industry. :huh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperman36 (Post 875494)

Where are the manufacturing plants though Spence? Off-shore?

A lot of aero manufacturing is done in CT, PA, NY. Some also have offshore plants but the engineering is done in the US. A huge % of the entire aero supply chain is US based...Granted, it's one industry of many, but they're doing well.

The good/bad element is that companies want to increase throughput without adding burden (i.e. staff) so they're investing in technology to make their existing workforce more productive. There are manufacturing jobs being added, but not at the rate required before.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875502)

time to start coding more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875490)

The recent numbers are not good brilliant!!!, but when you factor in continued high gas prices and global disruption caused by the nuke disaster and other events this spring there's reason for numbers to be where they are . HUH?
The same report(the report that we just established is worthless and mostly wrong) by the government also indicated that business investment continuing to be up as companies seek to increase productivity. Hell, the North East is seeing a lot of growth in the aerospace industry keeps cranking out the orders for more aircraft. Parts suppliers in CT are experiencing record earnings.

So the GDP alone isn't reassuring (SPENCE"S IRA is "reassuring"...for now...:rotf2:) but it's also not all bad. mostly

To be honest I haven't seen anyone this giddy over bad news since Moveon.org mocked Gen. Petraeus.

-spence

not giddy...just realistic.... and having to constantly point out that when you, Obama or the administration claim something...the opposite is usually true :uhuh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperman36 (Post 875503)

time to start coding more.

It's interesting to look at the history...

Back in the day a machinist would pretty much do everything by hand. I remember a plant one time (they made aftermarket piston aircraft engines) had all these old lathes from WW2 used to turn tank cam shafts...wow, these things were big.

Then NC programming came about and you'd program a routine by tape.

Then even that got computerized (CNC) but the machinist still has final control. This is how most stuff is done today.

The trend in more tightly regulated industries is now to do everything in CAM software and not modify the code at the machine. It makes sense in some applications (for instance you may be required to know exactly which program made which part years later) but also really takes away from the artistry of the job.

So even though the factory isn't a bunch of robots, the job functions have shifted and become more technical as a result. The technology also allows companies to get better utilization from their production equipment so more parts can be cut without adding a lot of people.

Again, this is just one example, but I think a part of the unemployment problem we have right now is simply a correction as technology is becoming more advanced.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875512)

A lot of aero manufacturing is done in CT, PA, NY. Some also have offshore plants but the engineering is done in the US. A huge % of the entire aero supply chain is US based...Granted, it's one industry of many, but they're doing well.

Again, this is just one example, but I think a part of the unemployment problem we have right now is simply a correction as technology is becoming more advanced. business aren't "not" hiring because of technology advancements...they're not hiring because the business climate is so uncertain with the knucklehead currently in the Whitehouse...go back and read the comments from the various business leaders that had a lot to say about this

-spence

any actual evidence of this and whether it wll have any real impact? Who is "they"? I did a little searching and...maybe in your little sphere this is true and makes you giddy, but there is nothing to support that this is any kind of positive sign of either a turn around in the economy or a signal that jobs are being or will be created....I'm sure there's a pastry business out there doing well too...but it doesn't mean much in the overall scheme of things...

from the list of top 6 "industries hiring" in 2011

number two....

2. Federal government
While local and state governments have seen their budgets slashed, there's no recession at the federal level. Between new government programs and a wave of baby-boomer civil servants who are retiring, hiring will be huge in government for the next couple of years. It's forecast that 600,000 need to be hired by 2013.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 875520)

business aren't "not" hiring because of technology advancements...they're not hiring because the business climate is so uncertain with the knucklehead currently in the Whitehouse.

Uncertainty is one factor.

The bigger picture is a global economy that's bringing tens of millions into the middle class. A lot of those manufacturing and white collar jobs aren't being shipped to China because it's cheaper...it's just that's now where the customer is.

Be it Obama or McCain as POTUS the picture would look pretty much the same on most fronts.

I work across manufacturing industries and have a pretty good position to see what's going on. Innovative companies are doing well, those that sit still are just getting by.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875534)

Uncertainty is one factor.

it is THE factor...

Small businesses account for two-thirds of all new jobs in America, but within that world, analysts are now increasingly recognizing the role that start-ups play in driving job creation. Economist Ying Lowrey of the Small Business Administration has calculated that new entrepreneurial businesses created 3.5 million new jobs a year between 1997 and 2008, with 1 million of those jobs going to paid employees, and 2.5 million to the entrepreneurs themselves.

7/13/10
"Owners do not trust the economic policies in place or proposed and are distressed by global and national developments that make the future more uncertain," the NFIB said.

"While political leaders trumpet their ideological attempts to remake the economy and save 'small business', more and more ordinary folks are wondering what in the world are they are thinking," the NFIB report stated. "Either policymakers have no idea how to help the economy or they are intentionally committing it to unsustainable expenditure growth and deficits so large that there will be no alternative but to raise taxes, a slow suicide for a dynamic economy."
Nine out of ten small businesses reported that all of their credit needs were met last month, according to the NFIB report. Just six percent of owners said "finance" was their single most important problem. Rather, poor sales, taxes and government red tape took the top three spots.

The bigger picture is a global economy that's bringing tens of millions into the middle class. simply not true.....job creation(the majority) will occur from small businesses...many of whom will not be participating in your "global economy"..make a quick list of the occupations and business that you know and you'll quickly realize that very few participate in the "global economy" or even have any need to

A lot of those manufacturing and white collar jobs aren't being shipped to China because it's cheaper...it's just that's now where the customer is. not true

Be it Obama or McCain as POTUS the picture would look pretty much the same on most fronts.
we've been through this and you have absolutely no evidence to support this

I work across manufacturing industries and have a pretty good position to see what's going on. Innovative companies are doing well, those that sit still are just getting by.
what you have is a very myopic view skewed by political ideaology:uhuh:

-spence

this economy will not turn around until Americans have the confidence in the economic and political environment to invest their time and treasure into entreprenurial endeavuors..it will be small business...very small businesses, that provide the jobs...not your cronie capitalists on a sugar rush from Bernanke that currently bouy your IRA

You should spend more time talking to actual corporate execs rather than reading Right wing blogs...

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875585)

You should spend more time talking to actual corporate execs rather than reading Right wing blogs...

-spence

all smarm...no substance :uhuh:

you do the high-minded rhetoric thing very well...

but on facts and reality...not so much...

a lot like our current president.............

Most large corps are showing significant growth outside of the US, the growing middle class in India, China, Far East, not the US is causing significant shift if resources employed by these corporations to be OUTSIDE of the US.

We are the second or third market for most the Fortune 100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875490)

The same report by the government also indicated that business investment continuing to be up as companies seek to increase productivity. Hell, the North East is seeing a lot of growth in the aerospace industry keeps cranking out the orders for more aircraft. Parts suppliers in CT are experiencing record earnings.

So the GDP alone isn't reassuring but it's also not all bad.

-spence

Have you recovered from your gloomy episode a few days ago in "THE SPEECH" thread where you felt that "Real wages continue to lag inflation for several decades now. Wealth generation appears to be more of a product of speculation than productivity in the marketplace"?

Or are you just changing your tone to suit your argument?

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperman36 (Post 875592)

yes, growth where there are favorable business climates and costs are more certain...

June 3 2010 (Bloomberg) — Microsoft Corp. Chief Executive Officer Steven Ballmer said the world’s largest software company would move some employees offshore if Congress enacts President Barack Obama’s plans to impose higher taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign profits.

“It makes U.S. jobs more expensive,” Ballmer said in an interview. “We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the U.S. as opposed to keeping them inside the U.S.”

I know...he's not a "REAL" executive like the one's that Spence talks to every day...but, he has a little experience....

those middle classes are "growing" because US large corps are shifting there and investing because the business climate is better and "cheaper", not simply because the customer is there and our corporations are chasing them as Spence stated...

"A lot of those manufacturing and white collar jobs aren't being shipped to China because it's cheaper...it's just that's now where the customer is." -Spence

we(US corps) are creating and have been creating the growing middle class overseas through investment with jobs that are better paying than what would otherwise be there...it's just a better option for these corps but they are focusing there for many of the same reasons that small business here is lagging in job creation...and that is a crappy business climate here

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 875599)

The context for the two remarks are completely different.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 875615)

those middle classes are "growing" because US large corps are shifting there and investing because the business climate is better and "cheaper", not simply because the customer is there and our corporations are chasing them as Spence stated...

You're ignoring the mega trends that are driving this behavior.

The middle class in China didn't rise simply because US companies were looking for cheap labor. Perhaps the USA's most successful export has been the American Dream. People in countries like China have determined they deserve better, are educating themselves and their Government has changed it's behavior to help enable this change. The influx of US jobs is certainly a factor, but before that you have a craving for cheaply made stuff that started the ball rolling in the first place.

It's a hell of a lot more complicated than just Obama and the corporate tax rate.

Quote:

we(US corps) are creating and have been creating the growing middle class overseas through investment with jobs that are better paying than what would otherwise be there...it's just a better option for these corps but they are focusing there for many of the same reasons that small business here is lagging in job creation...and that is a crappy business climate here

Don't discount how hungry the young professional class in these emerging nations are to educate themselves and be successful. We're seeing more of this now in North Africa, Iran and likely in more countries who have lived for the past 1/2 century behind closed doors.

Corporations have to manage their assets and resources against variable risks to deliver shareholder value. I'm sure every exec would love to have a low and stable corporate tax rate. But that doesn't mean they're going to turn that benefit into US jobs or value to the US consumer. In a very competitive GLOBAL marketplace they're going to continue to look for any advantage to capture market share...and as SM36 mentioned, the high growth opportunities are for the most part not in the US today.

If we're smart, educate our kids and keep the innovative spirit of America going...we'll be fine in the long run...but we may not dominate like some feel we're entitled to.

-spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875618)

You're ignoring the mega trends that are driving this behavior. "mega trends"

The middle class in China didn't rise simply because US companies were looking for cheap labor I don't think I ever mentioned cheap labor....I said better business environments which include the overall cost of labor as well as regulation and taxation.

Perhaps the USA's most successful export has been the American Dream. you mean capitalism, because that's what is creating these jobs and expanding the middle class abroad

People in countries like China have determined they deserve better, are educating themselves and their Government has changed it's behavior to help enable this change.

huh?

The 2011 crackdown on dissidents in the People's Republic of China refers to the arrest of dozens of mainland Chinese rights lawyers, activists and grassroots agitators who have been detained or have lost contact with friends and relatives is the response from the government of the People's Republic of China to the 2011 Chinese protests.[1][2][3][4][5] Since then, at least 54 Chinese activists have been arrested or detained by authorities in the biggest crackdown on dissent since the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.[6][7] Since the start of the protests in mid-February 2011, human rights groups have claimed that more than 54 people have been arrested by authorities, some of whom have been charged with crimes. Among those arrested are bloggers who criticise the government such as Ai Weiwei, lawyers who pursue cases against the government, and human rights activists.
China official warns of domestic unrest and "hostile" West

....................

.

February 20, 2011.

BEIJING (Reuters) - The Chinese government faces a turbulent time of domestic unrest and challenges from "hostile Western forces" that it will fight with more sophisticated controls, a Communist Party law-and-order official said.

Chen Jiping, deputy secretary general of the Communist Party's Political and Legal Affairs Committee, gave the toughly worded warning in this week's issue of Outlook Weekly, and blamed Western democratic countries for fomenting unrest.

"The schemes of some hostile Western forces attempting to Western and split us are intensifying, and they are waving the banner of defending rights to meddle in domestic conflicts and maliciously create all kinds of incidents," Chen told the magazine, which is published by the official Xinhua news agency.

"Mass incidents continue at a high rate," Chen said, using the Party euphemism for protests, riots, strikes and mass petitions.

"Our country is in a period of magnified conflicts within the populace, high crime rates and complex struggle against foes, and these features are most unlikely to change any time soon," he said. The magazine reached subscribers on Tuesday.

To counter such worries, Chinese leaders have promoted more of the stringent security steps that they brandished over the weekend, when police snuffed out feeble attempts to emulate the "Jasmine Revolution" street protests that have bloomed across the Middle East.

Chen said the government was honing policies to defuse and smother unrest and crime. Those policies include more monitoring of citizens to nip threats in the bud.

"That will include comprehensive roll-out of a social stability risk assessment system that covers major projects and policies that have a direct bearing on public interests," he said.

China Intensifies CrackdownJul 26, 2011 • By DANIEL HALPER

The New York Times reports that "China already has some of the world’s most far-reaching online restrictions," and now it's getting worse.

New regulations that require bars, restaurants, hotels and bookstores to install costly Web monitoring software are prompting many businesses to cut Internet access and sending a chill through the capital’s game-playing, Web-grazing literati who have come to expect free Wi-Fi with their lattes and green tea.

The software, which costs businesses about $3,100, provides public security officials the identities of those logging on to the wireless service of a restaurant, cafe or private school and monitors their Web activity. Those who ignore the regulation and provide unfettered access face a $2,300 fine and the possible revocation of their business license.

The new measures are supposedly meant to allow the Chinese authorities to crackdown on crime, but will instead allow the Communist government to suppress freedom more easily. This renewed crackdown is apparently in response to the Arab Spring, which has been a poignant reminder to the Chinese government that repressed people eventually seek freedom.

The renewed crackdown is, in a way, a tacit admission of guilt, or at least a self-acknowledgment that the way the Chinese govern is similar to the way Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad governs (and the way Hosni Mubarak governed Egyptians, etc.), and that the way the Chinese people are treated by their government is similar to the way the Syrians are treated by theirs.

The influx of US jobs is certainly a factor, but before that you have a craving for cheaply made stuff that started the ball rolling in the first place. actually, it was a lot of the same stuff...just made cheaplier...and in many cases.....better and for a fraction of the cost

It's a hell of a lot more complicated than just Obama and the corporate tax rate. right, there's the threat of Card Check and other Union strongarming, the Healthcare debacle, the insainty coming out of the EPA and other agencies and Czars

Don't discount how hungry the young professional class in these emerging nations are to educate themselves and be successful.why would I discount that? I believe that is the natural state of humanity until you become convinced by someone from government that you should depend on them for everything

We're seeing more of this now in North Africa, Iran and likely in more countries who have lived for the past 1/2 century behind closed doors. and why is that?

Corporations have to manage their assets and resources against variable risks see aboveto deliver shareholder value. I'm sure every exec would love to have a low and stable corporate tax rate. But that doesn't mean they're going to turn that benefit into US jobs or value to the US consumer. couple with some other factors, they might In a very competitive GLOBAL marketplace they're going to continue to look for any advantage to capture market share again...brilliant!!...and as SM36 mentioned, the high growth opportunities are for the most part not in the US today.do I need to repeat why?

If we're smart, educate our kids and keep the innovative spirit of America going...we'll be fine in the long run Hope and Change?...but we may not dominate like some feel we're entitled to. huh?
-spence

great stuff spence

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 875585)

You should spend more time talking to actual corporate execs rather than reading Right wing blogs...

-spence

Intel CEO Paul Otellini, referring to Obama and the Democrats, said in an August speech to the Technology Policy Institute's Aspen Forum, "I think this group does not understand what it takes to create jobs."

Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg, in a June speech at the Economic Club of Washington, accused Obama of creating an "increasingly hostile environment for investment and job creation."

Cypress Semiconductor's Rodgers told me last week that he had "started out happy with Obama because we had broken through the white male barrier" and made "a step forward for equality." But Rodgers added: "I have become deeply disappointed with him. It is amateur hour in Washington. The guy hasn't got a clue about the economy, how jobs are created, how wealth is created. It reminds me of the Jimmy Carter years, only worse."

Blackstone Group CEO Steven Schwarzman seemed to compare the Obama administration to Hitler by saying in a recent private meeting that Washington's push to increase taxes on private-equity firms is war, "like when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939," according to Newsweek.

July 19, 2011
Publicly-traded companies hold quarterly conference calls where investors are given updates on the state of the company and often hear about positive plans for the future.

Just yesterday, Wynn Resorts (WYNN) CEO Steve Wynn was speaking on a company conference call when he unleashed on President Obama, ranting about what Wynn sees as anti-business, socialist policies that are frightening companies as well as customers.

Bernie Marcus co-founded Home Depot (HD) in 1978 and brought it public in 1981 as the U.S. was suffering from the worst recession and unemployment in 40 years. The company thrived, creating hundreds of thousands of jobs and redefining home improvement retailing.

But Marcus says Home Depot "would never have succeeded" if it launched today due to onerous regulation.

Microsoft Corp. Chief Executive Officer Steven Ballmer said the world’s largest software company would move some employees offshore if Congress enacts President Barack Obama’s plans to impose higher taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign profits.

“It makes U.S. jobs more expensive,” Ballmer said in an interview. “We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the U.S. as opposed to keeping them inside the U.S.”

"We don't know what the latest great idea from Obama will be. Therefore, we are hunkering down," Cypress Semiconductor CEO T.J. Rodgers.

74% of CEOs Believe Obama Would Be Disastrous for the Nation | October 09, 2008 |

With the nation in the middle of what is being regularly reported as the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, a new poll found that 74 percent of America's top business leaders fear "an Obama presidency would be disastrous for the country."

i GUESS THEY WERE RIGHT

7/29/11

As U.S. Chamber of Commerce economist Martin Regalia warned Friday, Obama's increased regulation and uncertainty for small businesses "have made it extremely difficult for the economy to grow and create jobs."