Now combine low skilled immigrants with this and reach a logical conclusion:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.2c43446e79f5

The article admits that we have a low fertility rate and that it is a problem. But it avoids a deeper analysis of why that is. It claims that Republican policies are the problem. However, it doesn't mention that low birth rates, even lower than in the U.S., are endemic to all Western societies, especially in Europe which has the kind of economic policies that the article says Republicans should promote.

It doesn't mention the impact of the thousands of babies aborted every year for convenience. It doesn't mention leftists policies that push free birth control. It doesn't mention environmentalist's (I'm sure WAPO is in favor of environmentalist policies) call for lowering population numbers. It doesn't talk about Progressive deconstruction of genders which normalizes various sexualities which don't reproduce. It doesn't reflect on life style choices in the West that call for less and later birth choices--it claims that these choices are due to economic policies. It takes money to raise children. If you want more and better things, having less or no children helps to pay for that.

But it's not that middle or upper America can't afford more children. It's that they choose not to for what Ryan might consider selfish reasons.

It's the poorer (and yes "minorities are a large part of the poor) who are more "careless" about getting pregnant, who we want to get, and to help get, abortions. But we already have policies to help the poor raise children. The child tax credit favors middle and upper income families way more than the poor. And the middle and upper can afford children, but choose to have less or none or later because they value more goodies than more children.

The article blames the Republican tax plan for potentially suppressing birth rates. But lower birth rates have occurred already before the implementation of the tax plan. And the plan gives some more money back to the lower economic ladder. And generous European social welfare plans do not help boost birth rates. If the resulting lower birth rates are any evidence, they seem to suppress or lower birth rates.

So, rather than change the Western cultural shift which trends toward pleasure rather than parenthood, the article suggests that since the Republicans won't fix our "demographic difficulties" with government economic manipulation, we should resort to immigration to fill the void. It doesn't explore what demographic and cultural changes will result from such a solution. Perhaps the WAPO, being leftist, knows the change would favor the election of Progressives to power and the ensuing growth and power of government--the power of the State rather than of the individual. And that is perfectly reasonable for those who have been acculturated into the me-without-responsibility type or offshoot of individualism--the selfish "me generation" Boomers who have now come of age in the power circles of our country. Those who have accepted the Faustian bargain of selling their souls to the power of government to take care of all their society's functional needs as well as many of their personal ones so that they can spend their time and money on having the materially "good life."

Western Europe, especially Germany, has long used immigration as a means to supplement its working class to compensate for it's low fertility rates. It is now reaping an unanticipated result. There has been a demographic shift from a Post WWII freer democratic society to a more authoritarian one where the "native" Europeans have less to say about a maintenance of their characteristic cultures and are forced to change into a global view of their identity. And as the immigrant families have higher birth rates complimented with the continuing influx of even more numerous immigration from other cultures antithetic to the European's own, European culture is gradually replaced. Culturally and individually complex Western civilization "evolves" into a homogenous one world dominated by a strong "politically correct" centralized government, but a weak population of disempowered (but nice "life style" for the few better offs) citizens.

Ultimately, the responsibility of maintaining a free society rests on the people, not the government. Government is the antithesis of freedom. The more powerful and expansive the government is, the less free are individuals. The old adage still applies to a free society--that government which governs least, governs best."

Selfishness has its good use. What you are selfish about determines the type and quality of life you have in a free society. Of course, under forms of predominantly authoritarian government you have limited ability to be selfish. In a society of free people, if you make the wrong selfish choices, you endanger your freedom. If you choose not to produce the next generation that will maintain your culture of freedom, the children you do produce may well lose that freedom. If you are selfish to preserve that which you consider being free and being good, you had better not constrain your natural drive of bearing children to the point that there are not enough to maintain what you desire.

And then, there is also that Progressive contradiction--the notion that we must somehow preserve the natural world against our degradation of it. Yet, there is this unnatural predilection of progressives to denature us. To make us these automatons of the State who can be manipulated into various genders and sexualities, who can be artificially manipulated from one class into another, who can be transformed into a universal "correctness" in which we are somehow "diverse" yet essentially the same and equal. Somehow, the power in the natural universe must not be endangered by humans, but the natural proclivities and power of humans must be molded into a preferred image concocted by some supposedly super class of technocrats. And the triumph of this ideology, of course, will solve all problems including the obsolescence of nations and cultures and discriminations and any need to "immigrate" or to choose life styles or to choose the number of children to have. The "nature" of child birth is reduced to some form of central planning. And the embedded, artificially created and implanted notion of some blissfully controlled future surely has an effect, subliminally if not actually, on the psyche of those when they think about having children.

But more to the immediate point, if you choose to keep bringing in more people from other cultures who have different views of government and different selfish goals, and they have birth rates which exponentially and naturally expand, while your birth rates fall below even replacement numbers naturally devolve into a smaller and disappearing population, then the "logical conclusion" is obvious.

We will get browner?
Or less Christian?
Luckily I am an acceptable blend: One grandparent heritage from new Amsterdam and ones heritage from england with a recent swede and recent norwegian, I assume that did not dilute the Master Race.
You don't think it costs a lot to have a child in the USA?
And what do you get for spending the long dollar?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rth-in-america

So supply and demand was a real thing 100 years ago, but sometime after that, it ceased to exist?
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So why did America not suffer from the influx of all those immigrants from Norway when they arrived ? This counters your argument it doesn’t support it. And after 20 some years those from Norway were making 20% less the native born workers very similar to today’s immigrants
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Exactly, better than even under Obama, and his approval rating among black minorities is up too

Are you trying to instill race into my point of view? If you believe that brown people, whatever you mean by that, cannot have the same view on government as that on which this country was founded, perhaps you're a racist.

And I congratulate you on your acceptable blend of white European people. My blend may not be as acceptable to you. It has some different colors in it, different cultures, different religions, but I choose to adhere to the founding governmental principles of this country. And I don't know which race is the master. It seems that different parts of the world have different racial masters. Ask the Chinese which is the Master Race.

If all people are fungible, then it doesn't matter if you replace home grown people on whom we have spent resources, blood and treasure, to educate and acculturate to American values of individual freedom and limited government, with anybody else from anywhere in the world. If all people are equally replaceable, nothing fundamental will change with waves of immigration.

But if all people are fungible, then why do we have so many of our own who will not do what folks from other countries will? And why do so many of our own prefer socialism to free markets? If bringing in millions to provide the labor that we lack to run the market system we have, how are we assured that they will not essentially be the same fungible types as those who are born here and would rather be dependent on government. And who will not, with higher fertility rates, produce even more of those who are socialist minded, thus requiring even more immigrants who we hope will provide us the labor to sustain what will become an overwhelming mass who are dependent on the labor of others.

Under socialism, there is no need to import people. All the able bodied people must work. In a free market system, people cannot be forced by government to work. They must be personally motivated to work. One sure way of destroying a free market system is to dilute the motivation to work by creating an overweening welfare system. And then to top that off with a demand for forced equality. Then, ironically, bringing in millions more to do what our welfare recipients won't, and who will then participate in and add, with their fecundity, to the same systemic problem. Which will eventually overburden a free market's ability to sustain. The answer then, will be to instill a form of true socialism.

It's curious that you posted an article which showed Norway's success in transforming its status from a sh*thole to one of the most prosperous countries by dumping masses of its poor into this country, but now you seem to accept that bringing in masses of the poor from sh*thole countries will benefit us. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

And, yes I know the cost of raising children. But passing the cost off to society does not lower it. When society takes on cost, it raises taxes or borrows (which is a hidden way of passing on the cost back to us, especially to the children for whom we were given money to raise). There is a level of governmental funding beyond which it becomes unsustainable. Government funding costs are already unsustainable. Funding even more to make it easier for a mass influx of low wage immigrants who have a high birth rate is far more destructive of an economy than helpful.

We are given, by nature, the motivation to have children. It is an essential feature of being living creatures. We humans have this fabulous ability to sidestep nature and to create ever increasingly unnatural worlds. Do you think that the masses of natural breeders will have some children and many grandchildren who won't want to participate in all the artificial wonders. And who won't sidestep nature by not reproducing at sufficient rates.

Our problem, as a society, stems from our own disconnect with our fundamental nature. And it is an extremely seductive disconnect. Immigration cannot solve it. We have enough people. We shouldn't have to import more. The imports or their progeny will succumb to the same problem. And it will either bankrupt us, or we will go whole hog and create an entirely regulated system which determines how many . . . and whom. Some say AI is the answer--evolving into computerized robots.

Or we can more seriously reconnect with our inherent, somewhat messy but freedom loving natural humanity with its love of children, having, and raising them. And securing that free and loving way of life for them.

At that time, we didn't have poor Americans who would not do what the poor immigrants will do. At that time, there was actually a shortage of and a need for workers in an expanding market economy. Now we are told that we have a supply of Americans who simply won't do what immigrants will do for the wages they will accept. So we have an artificial need for workers. And the system that allows for people not to work and still get by, will entice a lot of immigrants (if we allow a lot) to take advantage of such benefits. And their children and grandchildren will certainly learn the American way of avoiding doing what immigrants will do, and so will enlarge the problem and create the constant need to import more people, and the cycle will continue until a big enough crisis occurs to finally do something to stop it. That something may be more undesirable than the cycle itself. Or it might be a good thing. Whatever it is, it will be necessary.

We are already seeing the cycle occurring. We have had floods of immigrants, legal and illegal, since the 1960's. But that has not solved our so-called shortage of labor problem. We still, supposedly, need more.

My post did quite a bit of critical thinking. You post here did none.

It wasn't a gotcha, it was factual evidence, proof, that the Dems use immigration as a means to get power. And the "most Americans agree with" meme is conjured up with a great deal of moral sounding propaganda supported by a willing Progressive press. And "crucial Hispanic support" is part of the symbiotic relationship that the Democrat party needs to persuade various minority groups to vote for it. It thrives on dividing us into group rights which it promises to enforce. It divides us to win. They may call it a moral imperative. But it is an immoral, deceitful way of creating a Progressive system of government. They pretend to support a constitutional system of government which guaranties some elusive "equality" for all, but will actually nullify the Constitution and subjugate us all to that which their experts decide is good for us.

oh ok .. and the welfare argument

We actually got more people from Sweden during the same time period then from Norway sent a higher % .. which is the size of new Mexico ...
So to praise Norway as becoming one of the most prosperous countries is not really True for that time period and that took like 60-to 70 years to make the transition

More time machine reasoning comparing today with something that happened over 100 years ago.. So lets go back to the roman days i am sure we could find an event that you could use as well

it is true that today ...Norway it is ranked 1st
on the Legatum Prosperity Index 2017 and the USA 18th

You think Trump and the republicans are supporters a constitutional system of government???

you mat need to think again their action contradict your observation

Becaus it's terribly significant.
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It means they are acting in the interests of their constituents.
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?????????????????????????

Maybe Trump called Haiti a shiitehouse bc he knew the story of his paying off hookers to keep quit was about to break.

What because Trump says so and his news network Fox says so:), I'd say it ain't so.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/u...s-support.html

And . . . .

If you don't want to, or can't, actually have a thorough discussion on what is constitutional, then don't pretend you're making any point with this post.

Tell me about it.

Thought you didn't approve of circle jerks.

Busy building a strong economy.

If I recall a similar post by you in some other post in the previous year or so, you've been doing this for a while. Your efforts seem to have gotten some better results lately. Maybe we should be giving you credit instead of Trump.

Pass the credit to Obama. And yes the red eye feels great this morning. Thanks.
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You're too generous and self-effacing.

Another needle in the haystack for WDMSO. Actually, WD, the videos on these subjects that I've posted are not scarce. There are plenty of them. I just link a new one every now and then. For your enjoyment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txk-CZRFEoQ

Another Trump hire. Trump and his team keep dragging all of us into the gutter. The Trump apologists will soon rush to his defense.


An appointee of President Donald Trump has resigned from the federal agency that runs AmeriCorps and other service programs after remarks he made disparaging blacks, Muslims, gays, women, veterans with PTSD and undocumented immigrants surfaced in the news media.

Carl Higbie, of Greenwich, Conn., lasted less than six months as the chief of external affairs in the Corporation for National and Community Service.

Higbie's Thursday afternoon resignation, which was prompted after CNN unearthed the comments he reportedly made, comes amid increased scrutiny of the president's appointees for racist or anti-Muslim statements made in the past.

In November, the Department of Homeland Security's Jamie Johnson, another Trump appointee, resigned after comments he made that linked blacks to "laziness" and "promiscuity" came to light. Last week, Pete Hoekstra, the new U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands and a former Republican congressman, apologized after uproar over baseless anti-Muslim theories he had spread multiple times in past.

According to the reporting and audio clips published by CNN on Thursday, Higbie had a lengthy track record of making strongly racist and anti-Muslim statements before his appointment.

In 2013, he spoke about giving away free firewood while working in Virginia Beach on "Sound of Freedom," an Internet talk radio show that he hosted, according to CNN. Higbie said that black women think "breeding is a form of government employment," and that blacks were "lax of morality," and that culture "is breeding this welfare and the high percentage of people on welfare in the black race."

In another talk show appearance in 2013, he expressed dislike for the term "African-Americans."

"The whole African-American thing gets me whipped up because it's like 99 percent - and I'm paraphrasing here - of people who write down African-American have never been to Africa," he said.

He also spoke disparagingly of Islam, saying that he didn't like Muslims "because their ideology sucks," and that he was fine if his views caused him to be labeled a racist.

"I just don't like Muslim people. People always rip me a new one for that. 'Carl, you're racist, you can't, you're sexist.' I'm like Jesus Christ," Higbie said on "Sound of Freedom" in 2013.

On another podcast, Warrior Talk Radio, in 2014, according to CNN, he struck a similar chord.

"I was called an Islamophobe and I was like, 'no, no, no, no, no, I'm not afraid of them. I don't like them. Big difference,' " he said on the show. "And they were like, 'Well, you're racist.' I was like, fine if that's the definition of it, then I guess I am.'"

This is not the first round of controversy for Higbie, who worked as the spokesman for pro-Trump super PAC Great America before the 2016 election. During an appearance on Fox News shortly after the election, he cited Japanese internment camps during World War II as a "precedent" for some of the president's potential immigration plans and the remarks drew wide condemnation.

Nonetheless, he was appointed to the position at the CNCS, which runs AmeriCorps and other volunteering initiatives, and has programs dedicated to rebuilding after natural disasters and supporting veterans and their families, including helping them transition once they return home.

In other audio unearthed by CNN, Higbie, a former Navy SEAL, derided military veterans with PTSD as having "a weak mind," and said he thought a large majority of people with PTSD were being dishonest.

"I'd say 75 percent of people with PTSD don't actually
have it, and they're either milking something for a little extra money in disability or they're just, they honestly are just lying," he said on another talk radio show in 2014.

Samantha Jo Warfield, a CNCS spokeswoman, declined to comment on the circumstances of Higbie's resignation.

Of undocumented immigrants, Higbie, on another episode of "Sound of Freedom" in 2013, said that Americans with guns should be able to shoot undocumented immigrants who attempted to cross into the United States at the border.

"What's so wrong with wanting to put up a fence and saying, 'Hey, everybody with a gun, if you want to go shoot people coming across our border illegally, you can do it fo' free,'" Higbie said. "You cross my border, I will shoot you in the face. I will go down there. I'll volunteer to go down there and stand on that border for, I don't know, a week or so at a time and that'll be my civil duty."

He also spoke harshly about Sen. Dianne Feinstein, also on "Sound of Freedom," calling the California Democrat a "bitch," and saying he'd love to smack her and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's heads together.

"Nothing gets me going like Ted Cruz, when he went off on that Feinstein bitch about the Second Amendment. And he put her in her place, that was just fantastic. I can't stand that woman," Higbie said. "Her and Pelosi. I'd love to just take both their heads and smack them together a couple of times."

During another appearance on "Sound of Freedom," he spoke about the legalization of gay marriage in Rhode Island.

"Congratuf'in'lations, you suck, Rhode Island. Why would you do that?' he said. "I mean, you are breaking the morals, the moral fiber of our country. You know, I don't like gay people. I just don't."

The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

PeteF.'s article about early Norwegian immigrants supports Trump's idea of who to accept as immigrants and also supports supply side economics. Spence and you chirp in about it being 100 years ago. Well, if that makes the ideas in the article obsolete, why didn't you negate the whole thing instead of just what you don't like while asking why we did not suffer from the influx of all those earlier immigrants? If it was a century ago, according to your "time machine" meme, it would not be relevant information. It actually, on the contrary, is asking to examine what happened 100 years ago to come to some conclusion relevant to today.

I replied that our American poor were willing to work for lower wages. So it wasn't a question of filling jobs that Americans wouldn't do, but was an actual shortage of labor.

You also asked or said "Oh ok . . and the welfare argument" which was too enigmatically stated to understand. But that reminds me about another key element which affected the view on work back then. We didn't have the generous federal government support for the unemployed 100 years ago. There was no incentive offered by government to refuse low paying jobs. So there was no surplus of American born who could but wouldn't work. They were not only willing to work, they had to. And the immigrants had to pay their own way to get here, and pay their own way to stay here. That's why it didn't hurt us, was not a drag on the economy or government spending and debt, but actually helped us.

Today, that's entirely different. Due to our comfortable "safety net" and generous government assistance to immigrants, which in itself makes it attractive to come here and take advantage of, even if work is not found.

So yes, the "time machine" operates differently today. And that is one of the reasons why mass immigration today is harmful and why it wasn't 100 years ago.

BTW, this notion that what happened beyond the very recent past is not instructive for us today is ignorant. It is a cockamamy idea probably filtered down to a common point of view from the vague intellectual heights of postmodern philosophy. It is mostly that philosophy which has transformed our academic views about society and existence into a gaggle of relativistic deconstructions, such as tens of gender identities, all of which melds into a regressive cultural Marxism that devalues anything beyond the moment, and even that is questionable.

All the great literature, art, music of the past is still relevant and enjoyable. Beethoven's 9th is not only still performed around the world, but is revered, inspiring, and overall more popular and lasting than all of our modern popular music. Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, is still a gripping psychological study. Tsung Tsu's Art of War is still studied by military experts as well as is some of the formations of the Roman Legions. Shakespeare is still considered the greatest writer in the English language.

Human nature has not changed since it was first recorded. That's why I said in a previous post that we should motivate our physically capable unemployed to do lower wage work that immigrants are willing to do, by making it a swim or sink proposition--as was the case with earlier Americans and immigrants. Do the work that is available or find some charity or family resource, or accept far more basic and less comfortable government provided help than is offered today.

Here's another list of Trumps supposed racisms. Can anyone explain how and why they are racist?

http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-...htmlstory.html