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Old 01-12-2018, 06:23 AM   #1
Jim in CT
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sh*thole countries

Maybe the most appalling thing I have heard Trump say, and that's saying a lot.

I'd vote for him again over Hilary...but man oh man, that's not a good guy.

You can have a debate about the merits of allowing more immigrants who are self sufficient and fewer immigrants who have nothing, but to use that language in that setting...says a lot about him, and it doesn't say anything good.

If he could keep his damn mouth shut and just get populist stuff done, the GOP would be looking at a landslide in the midterms. I hope he doesn't run again. Hand it over to Pence and Nikki Haley.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:01 AM   #2
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I suspect the people leaving the countries he's referring to would agree with him...that's why they are leaving or attempting to

"an estimated 80 percent of Haitians live in absolute poverty."
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:04 AM   #3
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Make America white again, that's really what he meant to say during his campaign. Yesterday's comments by Trump are just another example of his white is right attitude and I just can't imagine working in his administration waiting for the next completely inappropriate comment or tweet knowing that you must shamelessly defend or twist what he said into something he really (yeah sure) meant.

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Old 01-12-2018, 08:33 AM   #4
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I suspect the people leaving the countries he's referring to would agree with him...that's why they are leaving or attempting to

"an estimated 80 percent of Haitians live in absolute poverty."
I agree Haiti is a sh*thole country. But i think he said something like "why are we letting people in from these sh*thole countries". The answer to that, and it's sad that he doesn't already know this...is empathy.

Another acceptable answer would be, "because that's what America is about - opportunity".

Yet a third answer would be "we have sh*thole cities in America. People who come here from other sh*thole countries, are far more likely to become productive citizens and send their kids to medical school, than drug addicted welfare recipients currently living in Chicago. Because many immigrants come here and cannot believe how awesome it is, whereas people already here, take it for granted".
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:34 AM   #5
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Make America white again, that's really what he meant to say during his campaign. Yesterday's comments by Trump are just another example of his white is right attitude and I just can't imagine working in his administration waiting for the next completely inappropriate comment or tweet knowing that you must shamelessly defend or twist what he said into something he really (yeah sure) meant.
Black unemployment is at an historical low. If he's a white supremacist, he's not a very good white supremacist.

He's an unbelievable jerk.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:08 AM   #6
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The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:16 AM   #7
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If he said it he needs to publicly apologize in a press conference. Uncalled for.

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:28 AM   #8
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I agree Haiti is a sh*thole country. But i think he said something like "why are we letting people in from these sh*thole countries". The answer to that, and it's sad that he doesn't already know this...is empathy.

Immigration based on empathy is a formula which equates "empathy" with "self-destruction."

Another acceptable answer would be, "because that's what America is about - opportunity".

Opportunity is one of the benefits bestowed on the citizens of this country because of what America is "about"--freedom. We cannot bestow that benefit on the rest of the world. Freedom was bought at a bloody cost. Giving it to those who are not willing to fight for it, reduces its worth to its opposite--dependence.

Yet a third answer would be "we have sh*thole cities in America. People who come here from other sh*thole countries, are far more likely to become productive citizens and send their kids to medical school, than drug addicted welfare recipients currently living in Chicago. Because many immigrants come here and cannot believe how awesome it is, whereas people already here, take it for granted".
When we replace our sheithole citizens with immigrants, many of who are sheitholes, many of who are productive, we doom our sheitholes to permanent dependence instead of giving them a kick in their sheithole and making them produce or perish.

Immigration should not be based on nicely worded talking points. Accepting sheithole immigrants is stupid. Bringing in the cream of the crop from sheitholes deprives those holes of the very people they need to solve their sh*tty problems.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:32 AM   #9
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Archie Bunker
I think that's a great analogy. Except Trump is doing more to help the economy (which helps a huge number of us, not just the wealthy, and the media are ignoring that) than Archie Bunker ever could.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:40 AM   #10
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When we replace our sheithole citizens with immigrants, many of who are sheitholes, many of who are productive, we doom our sheitholes to permanent dependence instead of giving them a kick in their sheithole and making them produce or perish.

Immigration should not be based on nicely worded talking points. Accepting sheithole immigrants is stupid. Bringing in the cream of the crop from sheitholes deprives those holes of the very people they need to solve their sh*tty problems.
"Immigration based on empathy is a formula which equates "empathy" with "self-destruction."

I'm not following you. I wouldn't say we offer citizenship to every human being we happen to feel sorry for. What I am saying is that providing an opportunity for some people who were born unlucky, is noble, it's American, and it's the right thing to do, and I have no issue paying taxes to support it. I don't want to limit immigration to wealthy white people.



"We cannot bestow that benefit on the rest of the world"

I never heard anyone suggest we could. Trump seemed to suggest we shouldn't bestow it to people of color born in bad places. I'm sad to see you defending that.

"Giving it to those who are not willing to fight for it"

I don't know that immigrants are a lot less patriotic than the rest of us. The right kind of immigrant (poor through no fault of his own, who comes here and makes something of himself) has more reason to love this country than most of us. I'm not talking about Mexican illegals who come over to deal meth. I'm talking about, if I can stereotype, Asians and Indians who come here with nothing, and in one generation, their kids are in medical school. There's a lot of those people out there. That's who I want. They're not all white, they don't all currently live in Norway.

Maybe he didn't say what is being reported, it wouldn't be the first time the media lied to make him look bad. Nor would it be beyond him to say something that vile.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:18 AM   #11
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I wanted to confirm this so I googled “trump , #^&#^&#^&#^&hole” . All I came up with were his hotel reviews.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:43 AM   #12
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The WH is not worried as a spokesman reportedly said that it will resonate w/Trump's base. Trump denies saying it. Durban basically calls him a liar.

Repub. leaders quite on this (not shocked at that). He did say Graham pushed back.

Maybe I'll go read an essay on how moral the Repub. are.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:09 AM   #13
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that essay is basically just like how the Bible teaches morals, but with a lot of asterixs and the words “except if”.
Do on to others *except if they are gay, poor, or generally unlike you.

Help the poor *except if they are___________

Be non violent *except if they live in lands that hold great natural reaouces.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:22 AM   #14
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Trump should google famous immigrants who have made significant contributions in the USA, or maybe he would prefer there never was an Audubon society in the first place; throw that Haitian out.

I agree we need proper vetting, but I would hazard a guess some of these poor immigrants if given the opportunity will work and study their poor butts off and might be that one person who finally comes up with a cure for something we have been searching for for decades.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:30 PM   #15
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I think all of our "Noble" liberals should go one step further. It's not fair if we take their people in, without doing something more to help these sheithole countries. I believe that all of our Noble and caring liberal friends should volunteer to do a 1 for 1 swap with the US, for every person we take in, we send them one highly qualified liberal or socialist to improve the sheithole country that the immigrant came from.

Or even better, also add to this, each immigrant is assigned a loving caring liberal sponsor to help them in their goal at becoming successful members of the community.

This would be a win win for everyone.
The sheithole countries immigrants can come here and be mentored properly to become contributing Democrat voters.
Our caring liberal friends feel better about themselves as they improve a sheithole country.
While the rest of us, can sit back and relax knowing that all of our liberal friends are out doing "the greater good" while we care to national defense and the economy
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:35 PM   #16
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You need to watch "You've been Trumped" to learn how Trump thinks and how much he cares about others.
Just from another ****hole country, Scotland

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:55 PM   #17
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I think all of our "Noble" liberals should go one step further. It's not fair if we take their people in, without doing something more to help these sheithole countries. I believe that all of our Noble and caring liberal friends should volunteer to do a 1 for 1 swap with the US, for every person we take in, we send them one highly qualified liberal or socialist to improve the sheithole country that the immigrant came from.

Or even better, also add to this, each immigrant is assigned a loving caring liberal sponsor to help them in their goal at becoming successful members of the community.

This would be a win win for everyone.
The sheithole countries immigrants can come here and be mentored properly to become contributing Democrat voters.
Our caring liberal friends feel better about themselves as they improve a sheithole country.
While the rest of us, can sit back and relax knowing that all of our liberal friends are out doing "the greater good" while we care to national defense and the economy
Better yet. Why don’t you spend some time in a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole country. Learn to appreciate how you are viewed by the rest of the world and then if you can grasp empathy, perhaps you will understand the roots of terrorism and why terrorists attack innocent Americans
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:23 PM   #18
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Better yet. Why don’t you spend some time in a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole country. Learn to appreciate how you are viewed by the rest of the world and then if you can grasp empathy, perhaps you will understand the roots of terrorism and why terrorists attack innocent Americans
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Usually eveyone just ignores him.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:25 PM   #19
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You guys better get to work if you don't want immigrants.
They typically have more kids.
I did my share, I have 5 kids all gainfully employed.
Paul Ryan’s recipe for a robust economy: Have more babies
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.cc3963004393

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Old 01-12-2018, 01:36 PM   #20
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Better yet. Why don’t you spend some time in a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole country. Learn to appreciate how you are viewed by the rest of the world and then if you can grasp empathy, perhaps you will understand the roots of terrorism and why terrorists attack innocent Americans
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20 years active duty navy, stationed in Japan for 6 years, completed three 6 month deployments to the Gulf and three 6 month deployments to South America. I have been to just about every country in South America and Asia. We as a country cannot feed and help the world by bringing their people to America. Our resources are finite and in the end all you will do is make the US just as bad.

We need to stop giving "handouts" and start giving jobs and opportunity. Want to immigrate to the US, we should have a job site, where people can view jobs and locations, apply for the job, get hired, pass a back ground check and poof, now you are a legal immigrant that is helping the country and not hindering it.

We are the "Land of Opportunity", not "Lactation Nation" where we breast feed you from cradle to grave. Try to feed the world and you will end up very dried up and sagging to your knees.

Immigration should be connected with employment and opportunity and not based entirely on charity.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:48 PM   #21
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20 years active duty navy, stationed in Japan for 6 years, completed three 6 month deployments to the Gulf and three 6 month deployments to South America. I have been to just about every country in South America and Asia. We as a country cannot feed and help the world by bringing their people to America. Our resources are finite and in the end all you will do is make the US just as bad.

We need to stop giving "handouts" and start giving jobs and opportunity. Want to immigrate to the US, we should have a job site, where people can view jobs and locations, apply for the job, get hired, pass a back ground check and poof, now you are a legal immigrant that is helping the country and not hindering it.

We are the "Land of Opportunity", not "Lactation Nation" where we breast feed you from cradle to grave. Try to feed the world and you will end up very dried up and sagging to your knees.

Immigration should be connected with employment and opportunity and not based entirely on charity.
Thank you for your service. And yes, jobs would be nice. But wait. Done you want to make America great and do t those jobs need to be here in the US?

This is the conundrum.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:51 PM   #22
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20 years active duty navy, stationed in Japan for 6 years, completed three 6 month deployments to the Gulf and three 6 month deployments to South America. I have been to just about every country in South America and Asia. We as a country cannot feed and help the world by bringing their people to America. Our resources are finite and in the end all you will do is make the US just as bad.

We need to stop giving "handouts" and start giving jobs and opportunity. Want to immigrate to the US, we should have a job site, where people can view jobs and locations, apply for the job, get hired, pass a back ground check and poof, now you are a legal immigrant that is helping the country and not hindering it.

We are the "Land of Opportunity", not "Lactation Nation" where we breast feed you from cradle to grave. Try to feed the world and you will end up very dried up and sagging to your knees.

Immigration should be connected with employment and opportunity and not based entirely on charity.
First, thanks for your service. I agree that immigration should be tied to jobs, value or education. I certainly agree we enable far too many in this country to just coast on the free ride, but while I don't know the percentages; I'd bet the majority of those freeloaders are born and breed right here. I agree with states tying medicaid to jobs or volunteer work, if you are able bodied you should be working for the free meal or housing.

This thread started out of disgust for the comments made by our super sensitive POTUS, I don't think we were talking about feeding the world. Helping a select group of motivated and smart individuals get out of their sh*thole countries to either help our economy or to get educated to return and help their country is smart and proactive on our part. The more educated and resourceful immigrants we return to help their sh*thole countries, the less of a burden they are to those countries assisting them financially or with relief efforts.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:53 PM   #23
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Thank you for your service. And yes, jobs would be nice. But wait. Done you want to make America great and do t those jobs need to be here in the US?

This is the conundrum.
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Jobs and opportunity are good for Americans and legal immigrants alike.

If they are immigrating to the US, then yes the jobs should be in the US.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:54 PM   #24
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"Immigration based on empathy is a formula which equates "empathy" with "self-destruction."

I'm not following you. I wouldn't say we offer citizenship to every human being we happen to feel sorry for. What I am saying is that providing an opportunity for some people who were born unlucky, is noble, it's American, and it's the right thing to do, and I have no issue paying taxes to support it. I don't want to limit immigration to wealthy white people.

You said " The answer to that, and it's sad that he doesn't already know this...is empathy." You didn't qualify the word "empathy". So now you restrict it to not everyone we happen to feel sorry for. That is not helpful. Which ones who we feel sorry for should we empathize with? There are probably more born unlucky people in other countries than the entire population of the U.S.--several times over. What's so noble about picking and choosing which ones we will make lucky . . . and letting the rest stay luckless? What's so "right" about that? And why is that American? And if it is, when did it become so? Historically, from the inception of this country, immigration "policy" has been very selective and very limited--and there was no mention of "empathy" in it.


"We cannot bestow that benefit on the rest of the world"

I never heard anyone suggest we could. Trump seemed to suggest we shouldn't bestow it to people of color born in bad places. I'm sad to see you defending that.

You are not clear about what you suggest. You have not specified limits to empathy. It implied a suggestion, with your broad reason for immigration being "empathy," that we should indeed bestow our freedom on those who are unlucky.

As for your being sad about what you see as my defending (what Trump "seemed" to "suggest") discrimination against non-whites--I am a bit sad to see that you are drifting away from one of the things I admire about Catholicism--its historical scholasticism--that rigor of thought and clarity which did not impute undesirable words and thoughts to others when those words were not spoken. I realize that your "I don't want to limit immigration to wealthy white people" is your typical hyperbole. But I don't appreciate that you are implying, or actually saying, that I am defending racism.

The part of the world my ancestors came from was a main crossroad of conquests from Asia, the Middle East, northern and western Europe. I, no doubt, have the blood of many nations and races flowing through my veins.

And I live in Southwest Detroit, which is mostly Latino, and I cherish my Mexican neighbors. And my several black friends, in this basically black city, are a comfort and source of comradery.

And I don't have a patrimony or heritage of wealth, nor any personal ties or admiration for it, nor even a desire for it. Nor have I said or implied any defense of racism nor a preference for wealthy people. Neither do I dislike or disparage them.

So you needn't try to school me or scold me about a defense of racism.


"Giving it to those who are not willing to fight for it"

I don't know that immigrants are a lot less patriotic than the rest of us. The right kind of immigrant (poor through no fault of his own, who comes here and makes something of himself) has more reason to love this country than most of us. I'm not talking about Mexican illegals who come over to deal meth. I'm talking about, if I can stereotype, Asians and Indians who come here with nothing, and in one generation, their kids are in medical school. There's a lot of those people out there. That's who I want. They're not all white, they don't all currently live in Norway.

Maybe I don't have a reason to be sure, but I am sure that Trump wants those kind of people that you want as immigrants. What he doesn't want is massive thousands (of any kind) immigrating here within a vey short space of time, among whom would be many, if not a majority of those, especially from sh*thole countries, who do not fit the type you want. And it is very difficult to assimilate huge quantities of a type who come at the same time.

And he doesn't want, rightly so I think, chain migration. Do you?


Maybe he didn't say what is being reported, it wouldn't be the first time the media lied to make him look bad. Nor would it be beyond him to say something that vile.
You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.

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Old 01-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #25
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Immigration is not based entirely on charity.
https://www.wikihow.com/Immigrate-In...es-Permanently

The history behind family based immigration and how immigration works is pretty interesting.
If you do some genealogy and find out about your ancestry you might find out that the places they came from are not so nice either. Nobody emigrates because there is too much opportunity.
You can find some basics on Wikepedia and move on from there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

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Old 01-12-2018, 03:48 PM   #26
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You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.
You've used this deke before but it really doesn't work.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:23 PM   #27
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You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.
"You didn't qualify the word "empathy". So now you restrict it to not everyone we happen to feel sorry for"

I have empathy for everyone born into the 3rd world. That doesn't mean I think we should bring them all here. The ones we do bring, we do so, because of empathy and hope.

"You are not clear about what you suggest"

I apologize. I'll try to clarify. I suggest that if Trump truly doesn't know why it's noble to bring some people from horrible places here, then he is a bigger jerk than I thought. And I thought he was a pretty big jerk.

"Historically, from the inception of this country, immigration "policy" has been very selective "

That's exactly true. Until, what, the Kennedy years?

"there was no mention of "empathy" in it."

Oh. So if the word isn't explicitly stated on an immigration document, then immigration policy cannot be based on empathy? I thought it was kind of obvious.

"What he doesn't want is massive thousands (of any kind) immigrating here within a vey short space of time, among whom would be many, if not a majority of those, especially from sh*thole countries, who do not fit the type 'you want"

That's not what he said. If he said "I don't want immigrants who won't be good neighbors", no one would take issue with that. No one. That's not what he said.

People cannot control what country they are born into. I'm not a huge fan of attacking people for things they did not choose, and have zero control over.

"You read racism into what he said"

Possibly racist in my opinion. I don't have a history of screaming racism every time someone I disagree with opens his mouth. It takes something to get me to that point. To assume that people from Norway are automatically superior to people from Africa and Haiti, isn't something I like coming out of the mouth of my POTUS. If he runs against Hilary again in 2020, I will once again have his sign on my lawn. But I thought this statement was deeply offensive.

I'm not even saying I'm opposed to being more selective in immigration, to bring people who are more likely to thrive and more likely to embrace our culture, I have no problem with that. He just sounded like a eugenicist. Let the liberals worship Margaret Sanger, I don't want that filth where I breathe.

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Old 01-12-2018, 04:36 PM   #28
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You've used this deke before but it really doesn't work.
It was a fact, not deke.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:38 PM   #29
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I'll start off with my belief that of course we Norske are superior to everyone.
Now that I have that out of the way, I'll move on to the history of family entitlements. As i understand it in the 60s when the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed the ability to have your relatives follow you was added. At that time it was thought that would help mostly Europeans. Surprise it didn't work like that.

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Old 01-12-2018, 05:11 PM   #30
Raider Ronnie
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I wonder if some of that Clinton Foundation $ found its way to Haiti as it was supposed to if the place would less of a shiithole 👀
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