sh*thole countries

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Immigration based on empathy is a formula which equates "empathy" with "self-destruction."

I'm not following you. I wouldn't say we offer citizenship to every human being we happen to feel sorry for. What I am saying is that providing an opportunity for some people who were born unlucky, is noble, it's American, and it's the right thing to do, and I have no issue paying taxes to support it. I don't want to limit immigration to wealthy white people.

You said " The answer to that, and it's sad that he doesn't already know this...is empathy." You didn't qualify the word "empathy". So now you restrict it to not everyone we happen to feel sorry for. That is not helpful. Which ones who we feel sorry for should we empathize with? There are probably more born unlucky people in other countries than the entire population of the U.S.--several times over. What's so noble about picking and choosing which ones we will make lucky . . . and letting the rest stay luckless? What's so "right" about that? And why is that American? And if it is, when did it become so? Historically, from the inception of this country, immigration "policy" has been very selective and very limited--and there was no mention of "empathy" in it.


"We cannot bestow that benefit on the rest of the world"

I never heard anyone suggest we could. Trump seemed to suggest we shouldn't bestow it to people of color born in bad places. I'm sad to see you defending that.

You are not clear about what you suggest. You have not specified limits to empathy. It implied a suggestion, with your broad reason for immigration being "empathy," that we should indeed bestow our freedom on those who are unlucky.

As for your being sad about what you see as my defending (what Trump "seemed" to "suggest") discrimination against non-whites--I am a bit sad to see that you are drifting away from one of the things I admire about Catholicism--its historical scholasticism--that rigor of thought and clarity which did not impute undesirable words and thoughts to others when those words were not spoken. I realize that your "I don't want to limit immigration to wealthy white people" is your typical hyperbole. But I don't appreciate that you are implying, or actually saying, that I am defending racism.

The part of the world my ancestors came from was a main crossroad of conquests from Asia, the Middle East, northern and western Europe. I, no doubt, have the blood of many nations and races flowing through my veins.

And I live in Southwest Detroit, which is mostly Latino, and I cherish my Mexican neighbors. And my several black friends, in this basically black city, are a comfort and source of comradery.

And I don't have a patrimony or heritage of wealth, nor any personal ties or admiration for it, nor even a desire for it. Nor have I said or implied any defense of racism nor a preference for wealthy people. Neither do I dislike or disparage them.

So you needn't try to school me or scold me about a defense of racism.


"Giving it to those who are not willing to fight for it"

I don't know that immigrants are a lot less patriotic than the rest of us. The right kind of immigrant (poor through no fault of his own, who comes here and makes something of himself) has more reason to love this country than most of us. I'm not talking about Mexican illegals who come over to deal meth. I'm talking about, if I can stereotype, Asians and Indians who come here with nothing, and in one generation, their kids are in medical school. There's a lot of those people out there. That's who I want. They're not all white, they don't all currently live in Norway.

Maybe I don't have a reason to be sure, but I am sure that Trump wants those kind of people that you want as immigrants. What he doesn't want is massive thousands (of any kind) immigrating here within a vey short space of time, among whom would be many, if not a majority of those, especially from sh*thole countries, who do not fit the type you want. And it is very difficult to assimilate huge quantities of a type who come at the same time.

And he doesn't want, rightly so I think, chain migration. Do you?

Maybe he didn't say what is being reported, it wouldn't be the first time the media lied to make him look bad. Nor would it be beyond him to say something that vile.

You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.

You've used this deke before but it really doesn't work.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You've used this deke before but it really doesn't work.

It was a fact, not deke.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It was a fact, not deke.

People mix prejudice and racism all the time. To claim something isn't racism because you didn't explicitly mention the race is a distraction from the root issue...it's a deke.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

People mix prejudice and racism all the time. To claim something isn't racism because you didn't explicitly mention the race is a distraction from the root issue...it's a deke.

Too accuse someone of racism without factual evidence of it is the root method of the type of vague and prejudicial verbiage that you so often practice.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You read racism into what he said. I suppose that is what makes it vile to you since you agree they came from, metaphorically, sh*thole countries. But he didn't specify or even mention race. You are a devout Catholic. Get back to your scholastic roots.

"You didn't qualify the word "empathy". So now you restrict it to not everyone we happen to feel sorry for"

I have empathy for everyone born into the 3rd world. That doesn't mean I think we should bring them all here. The ones we do bring, we do so, because of empathy and hope.

"You are not clear about what you suggest"

I apologize. I'll try to clarify. I suggest that if Trump truly doesn't know why it's noble to bring some people from horrible places here, then he is a bigger jerk than I thought. And I thought he was a pretty big jerk.

"Historically, from the inception of this country, immigration "policy" has been very selective "

That's exactly true. Until, what, the Kennedy years?

"there was no mention of "empathy" in it."

Oh. So if the word isn't explicitly stated on an immigration document, then immigration policy cannot be based on empathy? I thought it was kind of obvious.

"What he doesn't want is massive thousands (of any kind) immigrating here within a vey short space of time, among whom would be many, if not a majority of those, especially from sh*thole countries, who do not fit the type 'you want"

That's not what he said. If he said "I don't want immigrants who won't be good neighbors", no one would take issue with that. No one. That's not what he said.

People cannot control what country they are born into. I'm not a huge fan of attacking people for things they did not choose, and have zero control over.

"You read racism into what he said"

Possibly racist in my opinion. I don't have a history of screaming racism every time someone I disagree with opens his mouth. It takes something to get me to that point. To assume that people from Norway are automatically superior to people from Africa and Haiti, isn't something I like coming out of the mouth of my POTUS. If he runs against Hilary again in 2020, I will once again have his sign on my lawn. But I thought this statement was deeply offensive.

I'm not even saying I'm opposed to being more selective in immigration, to bring people who are more likely to thrive and more likely to embrace our culture, I have no problem with that. He just sounded like a eugenicist. Let the liberals worship Margaret Sanger, I don't want that filth where I breathe.