Stripers Forever
 

Great video... thanks for posting

Stripers Forever .... love it ...

stripers
 

It's the sad truth

Very nice. Kinda hits the nail right on the head.

Love the concept of stripers as a recreational fish; however, if the economic argument is to be a selling point, then it becomes necessary to somehow disarm the charter industry, which is presumed to generate local revenue, but we know stalks breeders for their clients.

:sleeps::sleeps::sleeps:

Is there one person in the entire world that makes their living commercial fishing striped bass?
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My commercial striped bass fishing is included in my yearly income. It helps the local economy,it buys fuel, oil, dockage and some eateries around town.

It is not the commercial end of the striped bass fishery that is detrimental to the fishery. The commercial fishery last only 17-25 days before the qouta is reached. recreational fishing goes for 8 months. If anything you the recreational fishermen do more harm to the fishery.

If we want stripers for ever maybe it is time to limit the number of recreational fishermen along the New England coast and up and down the Atlantic. A lottery for a recreational striped bass license like they do for moose. There are just to many recreational fishermen for the species to maybe keep it sustainable. Recently along the Jersey coast there were a couple of hundred recs on the waters edge of the beach standing shoulder to shoulder fishing a striper blitz, reminds me of the groups of fishermen that once were able to snag for salmon.

There is a very large portion of recreational fisherman that practice something called catch and release. What percent of the comm's do that? Poor argument.

Wow, look at how good the fishing gets when a state prohibits commercial utilization. Think of all the local economic benefit those guys created.

Nice example.

The fish on there migration south facing the on slaught of recreational fishermen, has nothing to do about commercial fishing.

Do you think recreational fishing killed the blue fin stocks too?

i believe the majority of rec fisherman favor vast reductions across the board and a high percentage practice responsible c&r........damned recs- they're ruining it for everyone :rotf2:. gamefish status now.

Striped Bass will never be a gamefish.



Man is too greedy.

It seems like a no brainer to make them a gamefish.

I would be interested to hear from other guys who fish them commercially and depend on that income as a means to justify the fishery. To pay for fuel, oil and dock fees is a horse shi t.

I have fished it comm. for years and would luv to see it a gamefish, no one keeps any. Just C & R, just plain fun. As long as it is legal to do so I will participate, although not as hard as I once did as I am losing steam, as the quota will be met weather I do or do not. Make it a gamefish and I will have no problem with that. In fact deep down inside I hope for that. Just my opinion. P.

I always figure this axiom eventually works it's way into common law.

" The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few "

Not everybody is as rich as you. :)

Sure it does.

200 guys in the picture each kill and keep 2 fish (not likely at all) and 400 fish are dead for the benefit of 200 guys.

20 commercial guys off Chatham catch and kill 20 bass each for profit (not at all UNlikely) and 400 bass are dead for the benefit of 20 guys.

So who is getting their fair share and which group does more to profit the community?

You do the math.

To me when a commercial fisherman say recreational fisherman are the problem and want all of the fish for themselves it is the most disingenuous of statement.

Recreational fisherman really means the general public. Anybody can go out and fish under the recreational regulation. Most commercial fisherman put on their recreational hat when the commercial season isn't open. The recreational fisherman/general public are being grant the right to catch a resource that belongs to the public.

Now in the case of the commercial fisherman they are being given a special privilege above what the general public gets. They can catch more of this public resource and also sell them for a profit.

So to me when the resource numbers decrease the first thing to do is eliminate any of the groups getting a special privilege. Then you go after the general public. I'm not saying the general public should have no limit. Just that when the general public limit drops to a number like two this is telling you there isn't enough of the resource to support commercial fishing.

You're forgetting that the commercial fishermen provides 100% of the population the opportunity to eat these fish. Recreational striper fisherman represent less than 1% of the population but kill the majority of the fish, mostly for fun. So supporting Stripers for Dinner instead of radical groups like PETA and Stripers Forever is far better for over 99% of the population.

[QUOTE=Team Rock On; Recreational striper fisherman represent less than 1% of the population but kill the majority of the fish, mostly for fun.

yep mostly for fun.....:confused:. comms fish fo' 99 % the people- i love it! lets kill them all fo' the people!

LOL That is so rich. Yup I'm greedy so I won't give up nuthin but your conservation minded so you need to give up all LOL.Greedy never change. Sportfishing is for a great big bunch of people commercial fishing for stripers is only for a small greedy few.Many of which make huge money already.As far as it's better for 99% to commercial fish well that's about as smart as saying we need to open up trout streams nationwide for commercial trout fishing instead of farming for them so that 99% of the population can have them too LOL.
The video shows a lot of well thought out points unlike all you hear from commercials. We want more and don't wanna give up nothin period. it's all everybody elses fault. MMMMMMM How many times have sportfishermen given up more n more -catch n release,bag limits,size limits,moratoriums an so on. when was the last time you heard commercial striper fishermen want to give up anything and take any responsability for the damage that they do.I have the ability like so many other hard core striper fishermen to kill a couple thousand stripers a yr but don't many of us keep a couple a yr so that there are fish for the future.Commercials just plain kill for a buck and throw dead culls back all the time. Conservation be damned.

It's probably because I'm too close to the source, but I have never seen anyone buy a piece of striped bass. Either at a restaurant or fish market. Cod, haddock,halibut,tuna, salmon seem to be the dominant fish choice. Besides at the prices I've seen it at the cape markets why would you ?

Not preaching, just curious where they all go ?

I meant to add this as one of my top 10 disingenuous statements. :love:

I would bet that recreational fisherman supply the non-fishing general public with as many stripers as does commercial fishing if not more. Plus in most cases it is free. Remember most recreational fisherman who keep fish supply their non-fishing family members and often friends and relatives with fish. I only kept one this year and I know that 8 non-fishing public got a free striper meal from it.

Support stripers for dinner and the results will be no stripers for anyone. Support SF and there is a good chance we'll end up with a healthy striper population.

As someone who has worked in the restaurant business for the past 16 years and worked for a wholesale seafood company as a production manager, the amount of waste that is generated is insane.

I don't even care for eating striped bass, it will never be my first choice even though I have a ton of killer recipes.

The place we buy our seafood from gets em in every year, all the fish they get are cows, I'm talking big fish, it's really sad for me as a fisherman to see all these great fish just laying on the floor while illegals chop it up.

I have the opportunity to sell all the striped bass I could catch, legally and illegally, restaurants back door stuff all the time and people always ask for me to bring it by and sell to them on the hush hush.

I could easily make myself some serious cash on the side illegally if I wanted to, probably enough in one season to pay off some serious debt.

The thought of extra cash in my pocket is a strong force, but I could and would never bring myself to sell and fish I have so much passion for.

The catch and release is what drives me to fish as much as I do.

There's no better feeling than letting a big girl swim out of your hands.

I know most people here feel the same way.

I hope they make some serious changes and my kids will get to experience this great sport fish we have now and are taking for granted
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Not giving an opinion but here are the actual numbers backed up by the best available science and actually being used to manage the fishery are as follows.

We all agree the science sucks but it is what it is and it is the SAME SCIENTIFIC METHODS USED DURING THE REBUILDING. All I am saying is that your positions should at least make some sense when compared to the numbers.

2010 Striped Bass Fishery
Commercial Discard Mortality 6%
Commercial Landings 27%
Recreational Discard Mortality 14%
Recreational Landings 53%


MA anglers catch between 3 & 6 million SB per year

MA anglers keep 300,000 SB per year

MA anglers release between 2.7 & 5.7 million fish per year

MA anglers dead discard is between 240,000 & 500,000 SB per year

Commercial discard mortality is 1/2 of recreational? OoooooooooKKKK.

As for the recreational catch numbers, we all know they are a gross over estimate. The ASMFC technical committee knows this as well. But the ASMFC itself (with NOAA's blessing, surprise, surprise) voted not to change how recreational catch is estimated......partly since there is no other proven methodology to estimate it (the one they use is not proven either), partly because true lower recreational catch numbers would not result in a higher F and force management changes, and partly because it suits their goal of justifying a commercial fishery. A lower recreational catch would allow a higher commercial take to achieve maximal sustainable yield.....and it is no coincidence that is exactly what some on the ASMFC tried to do recently.

Under other proposed more realistic models, the commercial percentage goes up to almost 60 % of total catch. Much of the remaining recreational catch is charter boat generated. The average schmuck recreational guy gets a tiny share.

We all know this, only some like to keep spouting phony figures to justify their continued shafting of recreational schmucks. Does ANYONE on this board think the total non-charter recreational catch comes anywhere close to what was killed off Chatham this year by the commercial fleet. If so, where and when were those fish caught? Again, where and when in MA did a recreational bite happen to come anywhere close to what was taken off Chatham during the commercial slaughter this summer?

Where is the Black market numbers in this? You know, the undersized and illegal bass that are cleaned and sold to restaurants who don't hold buying permits? Oh, that does not exist I guess. Lets not be naive, this really exists and is being ignored. Also, when I see draggers working the shoals off Muskeget channel in late August and September I guess they don't catch any Striped bass at all huh? They don't seem to report any, that much I know and boats all around seem to be catching them.A few years ago draggers from Montauk and Point Judith were pounding the waters off of squibnocket, close to the beach < one mile at times. A beach goer/fishermen saw them several days in a row. He called the EPO. He looked into it. They claimed they were squid fishing. He went out there with the help of the USCG on a helicopter and got the numbers off the boat(s). He tracked one down in Point Jude when they got back. Guess what he had on-board? Hint: It was not squid. The problem is the penalty is not severe enough to make people stop...chances of being caught are slim, while the payoff can be good. Just make it a game fish and take the $ off the fishes head and 98% of this will stop.

The rec kill #'s make some assumptions that every fisherman is keeping his limit. Do you know how many Striped Bass I kept this year????? ZERO, NONE, NADA...Please adjust your numbers accordingly. Oh and I put over 400 hours on my boat this season. Nearly all of that was spent fishing. So I put some serious money into the economy and took mostly memories out of it.

The Banner statement below has the necessary "science" and "management" needed to make SB a healthy, stable as well as an economically and socially beneficial activity for all.
Your welcome in advance.

Makai,

You are right. There are many more people who eat rockfish in restaurants and from fish houses without ever fishing for them than there are recreational fishermen. Instead of fighting over whether they should be a gamefish or not (after which NMFS will merely use other laws to curtail the recreational fun as governments often do) time and effort is better spent influencing the allocations and methods used to catch the fish. But, this is just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like...

Bill

By the way, we are still in to them here in the Chesapeake and I'm headed out now to catch a few...and I'll even release some of them!

If the 20 guys sell them to fish houses, who in turn sell them to the public and each makes a little money and pays taxes doesn't that really benefit more than the original 400? Maybe my economics class didn't really teach me correctly...

Just saying.

I am willing to bet my next measly paycheck I make less than you.

Lets not go overboard on this and add the draggers to this, they are illegally fishing for stripers any way. If you want to add them into the equasion lets add the recreational and illegals that take under size fish home. Maybe we need homeland security in on this.

Fly Rod what species are you going to target to pay for your gas oil and dock fees when you can't find a striper anymore? Do you not agree that the striper fishery isn't sustainable at the current rate that both the rec's and comm's are pressuring it at? It is a valuable fish to both of us it seems, wouldn't you want to do what you can today to save it for future generations?

The last time I drove down Old Commers rd. in Chatham during the commercial season there where as many out of state # plates as in state plates and they where parking for the (big kill) commercial bass season.
When I see $150,000 or more parked along the road it sounds like STORY TIME fishing.
New boat,new trailer,new boat.150,000---catch---maybe5,000 -10,000???
do the math

You are right, it didn't teach you correctly. Just saying.

A resource's value to the economy is not measured by the economic activity it generates. Buying fish at a fish store does not generate net economic value, since that money would be spent on some alternate food if the fish was not available. The net economic benefit if the alternate food costs the same is zero (if the fish is more expensive, as is usually the case, then the net economic benefit is negative).

The value of a national resource is measured by the net surplus (producer surplus and consumer surplus) it produces. This gets complicated, but basically the less I spend to catch or buy fish (i.e., use the fish for my needs), the more I have to spend on other needs.

This is why the usual economic garbage people post BOTH for or against commercial fishing is meaningless. That stuff (ie how much is spent) is called input-output analysis. It is useful for predicting what group of people in a region will benefit from a regulation change, but it has nothing to do with national economic value.

Any economic analysis that optimizes value of a resource, will always include some commercial activity. So if we are stupid enough to measure striped bass in a dollar value, commercial fishing makes sense. But striped bass, for most of us, have a different non-monetary value.....call it happiness value. Any analysis that optimizes that for the greatest number of people will favor gamefish status for striped bass.

There are numerous saltwater fish that can be caught and sold commercially. For the recreational community to ask for a single species that is protected for their use simply reflects normal people trying to optimize the happiness in their lives. That pursuit of happiness is a "god given right" according to our law. It does not require subservience to "economic value". Maybe you missed that in school?

The fishery will out last me. There are plenty of stripers around. Your just not fishing where they are. Shore fishermen will not catch the fish that you would from a boat. On most any given day when I recreational fish I can catch 24-30 stripers in the three to four hours that I am out there, I get tired of reeling them in and most are under 28"and they all get thrown back, I do not eat striper and once in a while I will give one away, a keeper that is.

When I go commercially very, very few of the fish I catch are under 38", virtually no discard, maybe a half dozen during the commercial season may be under 34", it averages less then one fish per day.


How many do you throw back to get one keeper???

There is nothing more relaxing then to be on the water in the summer relaxing at a sport that one enjoys, hauling in a dozen or so fish worth three bucks a pound and making about seventy bucks per fish, then taking out the wife to have a nice steak dinner on the deck of a lounge and watch a boat or two go by. :)

I'm more worried about not fishing for cod commercially.

Why? The same guys have been counting both populations.

That's the difference between you and I my friend. I see more value in a 23 pound striped bass than seventy bucks. Enjoy the steak dinners with your wife while you can.