Fascinating read on Disinformation and an example of how widespread
 

Cannot recommend to read enough:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12...alice-donovan/

That is a mouthful certainly

Believe nothing you hear, and half of what you see.
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Good piece if but a bit long. If this surprises anyone you're not paying attention.
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Wasn't this mysterious Donovan regurgitating what was already in the media?

And yet our potus has a love affair with Putin, who has a probably dozens and dozens of these same ghosts writing just exacting what he wants, we are at war even if you don’t see bombs dropping and bloody bodies in the streets. He has made it his mission to attack our justice department, the cia, the fbi and now has upped his game of overstepping and abusing his presidential powers by intimidating the very witnesses that may be called on to testify about Russian involvement with our election and possible collusion by his own campaign.
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This must be some of that disinformation stuff. It can't be true because Trump loves Putin:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

He still has to give the appearance he's doing his job and part of that is supporting our allies and our interests in Europe, doesn't mean he's strong on the cyber warfare Russia has and is still waging on the US and other democratic countries.

I'm sure the Ukrainians love the "appearance" of the weapons they are being provided.

Congress approved arms sales to the Ukraine in 2014, I suspect that while this final approval was heavily supported by top Trump national security Cabinet officials and Congress I suspect it will complicate President Trump’s stated ambition to work with Russian President Vladimir Putin. If I were a fly on the wall during closed door discussions on this, I'd bet Trump was not to happy about it.

I'm happy that he is taking his 111st day at his resort, I know for sure he needs the rest, my God watching 8 hours of TV a day would wipe me out for sure. Although I've seen his golf swing, he definitely needs some work on that, so I hope he gets in a lesson or two. Secret service golf cart rentals alone this year are over $145,000, nice that his resort is making money while he takes time off, it's a win-win for the Donald.

Should he be striving for lose-lose?

The White House has parked a truck outside of Trump's golf course in attempt to block the view of trump golfing. What a joke. The hypocrisy in these Republicans is amazing. Remember when this forum would be a buzz with how many times Obama played golf, now nothing.
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I hope we survive the "Trump Era". This thread started to discuss disinformation, phantom ghost writers, Russian backed social media efforts to not only interfere in our elections, but to influence the public's perspective of things Russia (you could probably add NK and China) feels are in their best interest globally. To Russia that's attacking anything democratic, but yet our Potus still has a hard time admitting Russian meddling even happened. Just kills me that he even goes so far as to state he believe's Putin is being honest when he tells him Russia didn't do it.

You of course are well trained in the Trump tactic of misdirection and changing the subject is a predictable tactic, is that because you don't perceive this new cyber warfare a problem? Possibly it's because like Trump, if you admit that the Russians indeed did meddle and likely influence our 2016 election, then it somehow taints the Trump win?

US policies that were in place and I suspect regardless of who won in 2016, probably wouldn't have changed all that much in the handling of the Ukraine or the Syria arenas, however I'll give you a Trump high five for the redirection; it was as predictable as many of your next responses likely are.

Talk about disinformation

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/u...aws-bills.html

I wouldn't count on it...

It's convenient to say that when something you approve of would have been done regardless of who won, but if it's something you don't like, then it's specifically on Trump. I give him kudos. You can taint him however it suits you.

You said a mouthful there....."I don't care about his style".....I'd go farther; it's obvious those that rally in support of Trump don't care about his morals, his complete lack of decency or his constant attacks on those institutions entrusted to protect our nation.

In the 2nd amendment thread, there was this constant argument about needing the arms to prevent a tyrannical government from taking power; what about the tyrannical leader?

ty·ran·ni·cal
təˈranək(ə)l/Submit
adjective
exercising power in a cruel or arbitrary way.
"her father was portrayed as tyrannical and unloving"
synonyms: dictatorial, despotic, autocratic, oppressive, repressive, totalitarian, undemocratic, illiberal; More
characteristic of tyranny; oppressive and controlling.
"a momentary quieting of her tyrannical appetite"I personally don't believe the means justifies the ends.

tyrannical
[ti-ran-i-kuh l, tahy-]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.
of or characteristic of a tyrant.
2.
unjustly cruel, harsh, or severe; arbitrary or oppressive; despotic:
a tyrannical ruler.

Traits our Potus exemplifies to the extreme. Even suggest you are NOT a Trump fan and the tweets rain down, the personal attacks are unending, even crossing over into witness intimidation and nobody is immune. The justice department took a hit, the CIA, the FBI and now he's about to launch a campaign to convince the american public and those around him that Flynn can't do anything but lie thereby any testimony can't be trusted. Gee can you think why these institutions are constantly under attack and that Mueller's cooperating witness is now in Trumps cross hairs. What happened to his never ending praise of Flynn, oh yeah it served his purpose to wave the Flynn flag then, but not now that he's a cooperating witness it's a different song. Sorry Donald, yeah he did get indited for lying, but any testimony moving forward will be completely vetted for that very reason, with complete supporting documentation and supporting testimony's if more convictions are coming. Ironic that the biggest liar our country has ever put in office is going to use that argument to attack Flynn.

You have every right to your opinion of Trump and his actions, as do I. You continue to see him through your rose colored glasses, I see him in a different light and as an independent not through blue glasses either. I see a man comfortable abusing women, I see someone without shame in mocking the disabled, disrespecting military heroes, I see a man ok with bullying those that speak out against him, I see a man using rhetoric so unprofessional and so disrespectful I'd probably not want my young kids listening to it. Not the good role model I'd want my young kids looking up to, thankfully they are all in their 30's.
While politics where not discussed at the kitchen table when they were teens, based on conversations we've had lately, they and the majority of their friends agree with my assessment of the man.

I suspect women and the young in this country will be his downfall and likely the GOP. I think he has just screwed himself and the party with his abusive behavior towards women, his endorsement of Moore and the division he has spread across this country. I'm optimistic that the young voters are too smart not to see this clown for the poser he is.

I hope we do survive the Trump era, but it's not going to be a smooth ride and I pray that big global crisis holds off until the next term.

This is hilarious. You accused me of changing the subject, which I didn't. And here you go off subject on a wild rant, most of which is the kind of exaggeration or hyperbole that Trump is accused of, much has been debunked, most is not substantiated but opinion based on disinformation (which is ironic in that's what this thread is actually about).

And you now want to bring up the threat of tyranny when you scoffed at the notion that the right to bear arms for protection against tyranny was ridiculous and unnecessary.

And you say that Trump "exemplifies to the extreme" traits such as "unjustly cruel, harsh, or severe; arbitrary or oppressive; despotic: a tyrannical ruler." That is getting off some really deep end. Surprised that PaulS isn't calling you out to be a hater.

Get it together, man. Everything is OK. The country is in better shape now than it was before Trump got in. Things are looking good. Tweets are not substantive threats on the institutions of this country. Trump is not "totalitarian, undemocratic, illiberal." He is following the law. He is not acting unconstitutionally.

My post is my counter to your perception of the man and the job he is doing, goose-gander buddy. I'm still not concerned about a tyrannical government forming, as we have enough checks and balances; but I thought it ironic that we have a leader exhibiting the same traits that 2A thread raised concerns about.

I'd not bet all your money on everything being debunked, Mueller has indited key people and is working his way up the food chain, which is why Trump is now playing defense in attacking the FBI and getting his GOP ass kissers to join in to try to kill the independent investigation.

I don't hate Trump, but I do despise him for the way he is governing and degrading the highest office in the world with his juvenile and caustic behavior. Don't worry about me, I sleep fine each and every night. I do have issues that our POTUS spends 8 hours watching TV because his ego just can't stand anyone attacking him, only to go off on a Twitter rant the following morning; I sincerely hope sanctions against NK do the job before this thin skinned child needs to make a world changing decision.

OK, just a bit harsh, and a tiny bit hateful, but otherwise sounds good to me.

I'm not completely unhappy with Trump, it was time we tightened our borders and tightened up vetting practices. I'm not unhappy with some of his appointments and while I think he has raised the level of hate and division in this country, I think it is one of the primary reasons you will see a major interest in the electoral process. My three boys are perfect examples, as there was little to no discussion of politics when they were young, but now it's hard not to get into a discussion when they visit. It is for that reason I think women and the young are going to be Trump's and the GOP's downfall moving forward in the mid terms and certainly in the next presidential election.

The level of division and hate has been rising for a long time. I believe the divisive and hate filled reactions for or against Trump are symptoms and effects which are fueled by deliberate disinformation from all sides (touching back a bit on the subject of this thread). But the cause of these symptoms and effects goes well beyond Trumpism. Rather the cause is the growing fundamental divide in our political philosophy. That's why I highlighted a section of your post with bold letters.

I am hoping that the young (as well as the rest of us) will be more fundamentally concerned about and examine our political process, historically and philosophically as applied to the now, rather than be stuck only on surface levels of debatable statistics and outrage over politically manufactured charges of socially offensive behavior.

Politics being what it is, the surface bickering and name calling won't go away. But if our fundamental classically liberal political structure based on individual freedom disappears and is replaced by a quagmire of progressively relativistic ideologies, we will be led by the nose from unstable social policies to failed economic policies through a mine field of feckless opinions, guided by a fascistic bureaucracy from which the most activist among us may finally invite a true populist tyrant to whom we will give total power in order to save us from self destruction. Or from being conquered by a more principled foreign invader or foreign ideology.

And disinformation is a powerful tool which can help bring about that social and political suicide. So, when talking politics, we must focus on first principles above transitory symptoms and effects caused by hearsay and disinformation. Or we will go the way all of all societies which fail to do so.