Same old story - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

stripermaineiac · 08-22-2010, 11:36 AM

I've been watching several of the post on this and some of the other sites and had to chuckle. In the early 80's it was about the same . All the sportfisherman and the clubs were in favor of cut backs and reduced limits but at the same time the commercials kept pushing for more an more.Nothing was done to change things till they bottomed out. Bob Pond would try at every meeting to talk sence into an industry run by greed. Well here we are again. I reread some of the notes and minutes that Bob and several of us kept from these meetings and not surprisingly the intent is still pretty much the same.as long as there's a buck to be made nothing will be done as many within our own ranks will continue to play both sides of the issue to keep their profits coming and try to make the sportfisherman the bad guys. We are our own worst enemy in that we trust ourselves way too much.
I've talked with several politicians to see what it would take to get a coastwide initiative passed to scroll back the limits on the stripers before we get to the 80's again. The reply is the same as back then. Unless the clubs all get together with the commercials no politician in good faith will back a bill to do this.
So the ball is in our court but we can't keep playing it here. we need to meet -all the club reps- get something together and then meet with the comercials and work out an agreement to take to the politicians. If we don't well we will relive the old days again,moratoriums and all. this time the fish might not get the chance to come back. Ron

MakoMike · 08-22-2010, 06:35 PM

Yeah, Its all the commercials fault even though recreational fishermen catch almost 90% of the fish.

stripermaineiac · 08-22-2010, 06:55 PM

Yup your right. Same old story. i still haven't heard any of the commercials say that they'll cut back. yet on every sportfishing site you go on there is a huge number of sportsmen saying that a cut back is needed and they'll happily do it. Shame the commercials still want more.Look at the RISSA site,SOL and the Jearsy and New York sites. Cut backs and stricter limits being recomended by the sportfishermen. So where are the Commercials . Same place they were in the 70's an early 80's. Saying it's not their fault aand can they have some more of the resorse need more money.I've kept 2 fish so far this yr. How many have you kept?And I fish a lot.We all need to cut back and not just to put more money in some part time commercials vacation fund. Ron

JohnnyD · 08-22-2010, 07:07 PM

Some of the Commercials on this site are obvious examples of it. For instance, the ones stating that they support the ASMFC proposal to increase the commercial take.

Some will always be in favor of more commercial take to pad their wallets today, at the risk of not having any fish tomorrow.

Adam_777 · 08-22-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Yeah, Its all the commercials fault even though recreational fishermen catch almost 90% of the fish.

Prove it.Scientifically if you could.Clear it up for the rest of us.

redlite · 08-22-2010, 08:13 PM

I play both sides of the coin.
Sadly, I do rely heavily on the scant income I earn from commercial fishing from SHORE. Yes, I do have a "real "job, but if it wasn't for the few bucks I am able to earn out fishing, I would not be able to fish the way I do and still pay my bills. I have never made a profit. I have been doin it since I was 18 yrs old when JT first showed me the ways of comm'n the backside of the cape.
That said, I remember the days of very few bass. We fished all the time growin up, but mostly all we caught were blue fish, and that's what we ate, and that's why I don't even eat fish.
As for when they had the limit at 36 inches, I remeber how proud I was when I finally got one.
I was actually very happy when they first put the limit at 2 fish, as it made the trips to the cape worth it. everyone I know wants fish, but they don't wanna catch them and they want them filleted. So many times i would make the hour and a half ride down, get out of the car, make 3 casts, and bang a big fish. Great, I was done if it was one fish. Never throw it back cause you may not get another one all nite.
Being able to take 2 fish Made it worth it.
I commercial fished a boat hard for a few years and we killed a lot of fish. There were also plenty of days of 14 hours of nothing.
As my great mentor TC always said, the most common denominator on his slips was "0".
Now I am out there almost every nite( well, not this year), but even still, I do not personally see any danger of the the bass stocks crashing again. Fish move and change their set up areas. You need to too.
Would a one recreational fish limit help? I absoluetly believe so. At this point in life, I am all for one fish at 36 inches.
Should they increase Mass's comm take? I absolutely feel they shouldn't.
I am not a bible thumpin advocate for the fish. Game fish status would never get a vote from me.
I fish to catch big fish and kill them. The bigger they are, the more of my friends and family i can help feed out of each fish. More bang for the buck.
Hate me for how i view it, but that's the way i feel. I am passionate about striped bass fishing. I don't even fish for anything else. My life and moment to moment thoughts revolve around catching striped bass.
However as much as I hate how our government "protects" us from so much, i am glad that they do something to try and protect this resource, as screwed up of an approach as they may take, at least it is SOME step, and that there are so many people that are more passionate and devoted than I to watching out for them.

BMEUPSCOTTY · 08-22-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Yeah, Its all the commercials fault even though recreational fishermen catch almost 90% of the fish.

recs catch 90% of the fish? No kidding... how many com guys are fishing for bass outside of the com season?? Do you think recs KILL 90% of the fish KILLED during a season??? I don't think so.....

Green Light · 08-22-2010, 08:39 PM

Where's the data? That is, where can we find accurate and reliable data on stripped bass stock levels over the years? I ask because it's easy to get emotional about the issue and start drawing conclusions based on what we see or do not see on the short stretches of shore line we fish. The striper cost runs from Maine to North Carolina.

Raven · 08-23-2010, 04:17 AM

flounder at Bj's is around a dollar per pound

Mr. Sandman · 08-23-2010, 05:12 AM

Fishing laws across the board must change. Comm fishing methods must change. Personally I believe that the oceans can not support indiscriminate fishing methods. (dragging, gill netting,purse seining etc) because of its wasteful by-catch discard. I think R&R comm fishing is OK because it is selective and does not take every last fish in a school...but is not managed worth a damn.

As for 90% of fish are taken by recs. I don't believe it. Most bass fishing by recs is largely C&R nowadays. The assumptions used to support that number are way off base and decades old. The "lic" is suppose to clear up this matter but I doubt it will do much of anything.

I believe the total bass KILLED (not just sold thru the quota) by ALL comm fishing (netting by-catch discard, illegal, undersized, EEZ fish, yoyo rig mortality, and charter boats (which are a comm enterprise) etc) exceeds the rec catch today by a wide margin. Most recs don't fish that often and most don't catch squat. The estimates are bogus. But all this is just anecdotal, from my observations, so take it for what it is worth. The only fact is that the reproduction rates are declining for the last decade and the catch rate is also declining further the "condition" or health of the fish is also declining.

IMO at the current rate, Bass fishing will collapse again. Actually I am looking forward to the collapse just to say I told you so goddamnit!

Nothing will change. We do not learn from history or mistakes. Ron is right, the comm "user group" was pushing for no change and increases during the previous collapse. I remember the shouting and arguments at those meetings. It was like trying to take a gun away from an I-rate NRA member...over my cold dead body. The same thing is happening now. Nothing is changing.

The amount of illegal %$%$%$%$ going on with bass up and down the coast is so far out of control is is laughable and can not be policed. The ONLY solution for coast wide control is...Gamefish status and that is why I support this option. I also support 1@36 for recs with major fishery re-building efforts in the forage fish depts.

What cracks me up about the comm's perspective is they of course are in both user groups...and while they support 1@36 for recs...want no change in the 30/day@ 34 for comm.

IMO there should be no comm fishery in any fishery that is declining or is not stable and growing.
BTW...this rec has taken 1 bass home this year so far.

Joe · 08-23-2010, 05:55 AM

The Sunnis and Shiites will work together for a common goal before commercial and recreational fishermen.

jmac · 08-23-2010, 06:19 AM

Quote:

I believe the total bass KILLED (not just sold thru the quota) by ALL comm fishing (netting by-catch discard, illegal, undersized, EEZ fish, yoyo rig mortality, and charter boats (which are a comm enterprise) etc) exceeds the rec catch today by a wide margin

I am pretty sure that charter boat mortality is tabbed as recreational fish by ASMFC...and that is why a portion of the rec mortality figures are high; no one ever seems to mentioned that in the rec vs comm controversy. Most charter customers aren't going to release their catch after paying their fees. I have nothing against the charter industry ( I know many); it just has to be reported on the number of fish they catch (from Virginia to Maine)....and I am sure they are totally against 1 fish per day bag limits...it would kill their already tenuous situation (economy/fuel, i.e., etc)...I don't think many patrons would pay upwards of $800 to charter a boat for 1 fish each....

There are many economic/social issues and slants involved with the striped bass fishery industry (and it is an industry); because of its recovery it HAS become the fish of note on the East coast...everybody fishes for them at the expense of most others...(fluke, bottom fish, tuna, bluefish)....

Also, the striped bass has been a commercial fishery since the pilgrims bartered with the indians (a little poignant humor here)

Raider Ronnie · 08-23-2010, 06:32 AM

I got to laugh at all the bad talk against the commercial & charter guys killing fish.
How many of you same guys are in the OTW striper cup and are killing the biggest fish you can, for what ?
A STUPID TROPHY !
And to say I'm better than you !

Joe · 08-23-2010, 06:39 AM

I think there's some prizes too.

Typhoon · 08-23-2010, 07:01 AM

I bet the dragger discards dwarf the rec vs commercial mortality issue.

hundreds of thousands of lbs wasted

JohnR · 08-23-2010, 07:06 AM

And camaraderie

Anyway. We do have some serious issues to be concerned with and to adddress before this becomes a crash. We're not there yet and a crash can certainly be avoided.

What we have:

A biomass with a declining but still in ASMFC's healthy range.

A less overall rec take down since 2004 though increasing.

A numbers unknown in poaching, rec & comm, that is not quantified on the numbers.

We have a significant concern on the effects of Mycobacteriosis and what that might do to the stocks in the near future.

Alone, the Myco should prompt discussion to reduce take so the population is more survivable.

MAKAI · 08-23-2010, 07:16 AM

Can someone convince me that charter boats by their very definition are not commercial.

jmac · 08-23-2010, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Can someone convince me that charter boats by their very definition are not commercial.

...but they take recreational guys out fishing...hence the desigination by ASMFC as recreational catch...

There was a move, years ago, by the delegates (my good friend was the RI delegate then) to classify them as their own quasi- commercial group, but failed to pass.... (probaly because it would limit them to a hard quota)

ProfessorM · 08-23-2010, 07:45 AM

I would never,ever, be in favor of an increase. I would be in favor of a 5 fish a day and half the total quota now. I would also want a 1 fish at 36" for recs. That is my opinion for what it is worth. I am sure that would piss off both user groups. I don't rely on this for my living though so someone that does will have a different agenda. There are so many different options that could be put into play to pacify each user group but levelheaded people will have to be involved to accomplish that and each group would have to make concessions and I don't hear anything that would make me feel like that is ever going to happen so I'll just sit on the sidelines and wait until some people with some knowledge greater than I can solve this long downward spiraling problem. I don't ever see both major user groups ever coming together on this problem so sadly I guess we will have to experience the non existence of bass to finally iron this out, and even that sernerio probably won't get it done.

CowHunter · 08-23-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Can someone convince me that charter boats by their very definition are not commercial.

IT IS REALLY REALLY SIMPLE.... IN NO STATE DOES A CHARTER BOAT / HEAD BOATS CATCH COUNT TOWARDS ANY COMMERCIAL QUOTA!!! SECOND THEY ABIDE BY A RECREATIONAL LIMIT... They can go out 1,2,3 times a day and KILL their rec limits....

Joe · 08-23-2010, 07:49 AM

A big problem is that we are at a point where science is no longer viewed as impartial. (Rightly or wrongly.) People now believe all data is suspect and tilted to whomever financed the findings or paid their science guy to say what for them. Both sides can trot out scientists to support their interests. That's a significant change from the last time the fishery was in decline.

Nebe · 08-23-2010, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

IT IS REALLY REALLY SIMPLE.... IN NO STATE DOES A CHARTER BOAT / HEAD BOATS CATCH COUNT TOWARDS ANY COMMERCIAL QUOTA!!! SECOND THEY ABIDE BY A RECREATIONAL LIMIT... They can go out 1,2,3 times a day and KILL their rec limits....

Oh right.. And that's why just about every charter boat out of point Judith that makes 2 trips a day is keeping 2 fish per the captian and mates??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

MAKAI · 08-23-2010, 09:25 AM

When I work a 12 hour shift mating on my friends boat on the weekend s. I don't feel I am " recreational fishing ".
(5am at boat prep, 6am departure 1.5 hr steam, 7 hours fishing, trip back, clean the catch, clean the boat, drive home between 5 and 6 pm)

I KNOW IT'S NOT CLASSICAL COMMERCIAL FISHING, NOR IS IT CLASSICAL RECREATIONAL FISHING, BUT IT IS A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR REGARDING FISHING.

And if it takes a good size bite out of the pie.
It needs to have it's own accountability and designation.

That is all I am suggesting.

CowHunter · 08-23-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebe

Oh right.. And that's why just about every charter boat out of point Judith that makes 2 trips a day is keeping 2 fish per the captian and mates??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What they do with those fish is their business..... Is it any different than just regular joe's running out 2-3 times a day keeping their limits? Black market is thriving, its pretty obvious. At least the Comm catch goes to a quota, the rec and charter guys have an unlimited quota!

RIJIMMY · 08-23-2010, 09:54 AM

I support the 1 fish rec limit and regardless of all the science/opinions, I believe it cant hurt so why wouldnt we do it?

likwid · 08-23-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKAI

BUT IT IS A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR REGARDING FISHING.

ding ding ding!
we have a winner!

JohnnyD · 08-23-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

What they do with those fish is their business.....

Nope, it's not. If they make 2 trips out/day and the capt/mate keep 2 fish per trip, they're exceeding their 2 fish/day limit and it now becomes every single person who fishes business.

Nebe · 08-23-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Nope, it's not. If they make 2 trips out/day and the capt/mate keep 2 fish per trip, they're exceeding their 2 fish/day limit and it now becomes every single person who fishes business.

Yup. That was my point.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

CowHunter · 08-23-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Nope, it's not. If they make 2 trips out/day and the capt/mate keep 2 fish per trip, they're exceeding their 2 fish/day limit and it now becomes every single person who fishes business.

Its a possesion Limit!!!! You cannot have in possesion more than 2 striped bass per angler! That simple...

CowHunter · 08-23-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by likwid

ding ding ding!
we have a winner!

Not for the guys chartering the vessel... Just the captain and mate...