OK--you're king for a day

[Mike P]

How would you manage the bass fishery, if you had the ultimate power in your hot little hands. The two threads ongoing are getting kind of cluttered.

After thinking it over, here would be what I would decree:

Coastwide recreational slot limit, two fish per day, 20" to 26".

Coastwide trophy tag system, each angler gets 5 tags annually to use on fish 40" plus. This would allow anglers to keep a fish of a lifetime, and fish a tournament or two, but you'd have to choose your trophies wisely.

The cost of printing, distributing and managing the tags would be paid out of what's inevitably going to get shoved down our throats, like it or not--a SW license.

I would leave whether to have a commercial fishery to the states. Gamefish states, however, get no extra consideration and no additional trophy tags for their anglers.

I would limit participation to people that derive at least 50% of their gross annual income from the sale of fin and shellfish. Commercial fishing will mean exactly that, not a means for recs to defray the cost of a hobby.

I'd let each state decide its own commercial size/bag limits.

Quotas would remain as currently distributed.

The EEZ ban makes no sense to me. As long as the fish count against some state's quota it seems immaterial to me where they're caught.

[JFigliuolo]

I like your decrees... I would add banning draggers from ANY inshore waters. Maybe a 10 mile limit. (Not sure on exact number, but hey, who's gonna argue w/the king!)

[Redsoxticket]

who would be the collector of the tags because one can catch over 5, 40"+ bass if no collector.

[Mike P]

Same way they have a deer checking system now. You can't weigh one in, or enter a non-tagged fish in a tournament, and if you get caught with an untagged fish over 40" you not only get fined, but your gear gets confiscated--no judgment on the EPOs part. Mandatory forfeiture. Your rec license is suspended for 2 years from the date of the first offense, 5 years for a second and subsequent.

[macojoe]

Band all commercial fishing from the 3 mile limit, stay with a bag limit of 2 fish a day
There be plenty of bass for many many many years that way!!

[BigFish]

1 fish at 30 inch minimum per day. No "recreational" fisherman needs more than that! If they do, they are selling fish out the back door! NO COMMERCIAL SEASON! My belief is the commercial season impacts the fishery a boat load more than the recreational fishermen do!

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Mike P

How would you manage the bass fishery, if you had the ultimate power in your hot little hands. The two threads ongoing are getting kind of cluttered.

After thinking it over, here would be what I would decree:

Coastwide recreational slot limit, two fish per day, 20" to 26".

Coastwide trophy tag system, each angler gets 5 tags annually to use on fish 40" plus. This would allow anglers to keep a fish of a lifetime, and fish a tournament or two, but you'd have to choose your trophies wisely.

The cost of printing, distributing and managing the tags would be paid out of what's inevitably going to get shoved down our throats, like it or not--a SW license.

I would leave whether to have a commercial fishery to the states. Gamefish states, however, get no extra consideration and no additional trophy tags for their anglers.

I would limit participation to people that derive at least 50% of their gross annual income from the sale of fin and shellfish. Commercial fishing will mean exactly that, not a means for recs to defray the cost of a hobby.

I'd let each state decide its own commercial size/bag limits.

Quotas would remain as currently distributed.

The EEZ ban makes no sense to me. As long as the fish count against some state's quota it seems immaterial to me where they're caught.

Ah, the man who would be king!

I dunno, counselor, but I think all around the board I'm with you

The only problem I can see with it is that it makes such good sense for the fishery that it would most certainly never be adopted

There must be an advisory board somewhere that could use one good man (hint, hint).

[fishsmith]

2 fish limit with slot rule
1 fish 24" - 28" / 1 fish 36" or larger

[Clogston29]

i agree with all mike's ideas

but seeing that the trophy tag would be so hard to enforce, i'd make it one slot fish at 20-26" and either a second at 20-26" or a second fish at over 40". that would allow you to keep a "table size" fish and still keep a large fish if you get one later.

[ThrowingTimber]

1 at 36" and get some of those Bad Ass maine cops to enforce. The kind that will sit in your driveway, board your boat, video you on rocks that would be outstanding

and draggers would be pushed 20 miles off

and I'd be able to walk on water

[RIROCKHOUND]

1 @36" I think given RI/MA track record with enforcement, slots are too hard to enforce.

I have no problem with some R&R commercial fishery. I see advantages of moving draggers offshore, but you need a scientifically proven reason (not saying that isn't possible) otherwise you start treading into takings type issues...

[Tagger]

give Striped Bass ,Menhaden , Herring, and Mackerel game fish status.. no commercial fishing .
Striped Bass rec slot 24" - 28" 1 fish a day .. trophy keeper ,fish of a life time 50 lb.+
Imaging the blitzes after ten years ..

[WoodyCT]

[QUOTE=ThrowingTimber;607475] ...get some of those Bad Ass maine cops to enforce. The kind that will sit in your driveway, board your boat, video you on rocks... QUOTE]

... but it's not likely in CT, and maybe RI, where so little of the state's income is from natural resources. Costs outway the benefits to our legislators.

Maine, and other rural states that rely on out of state money from sportsmen, has to protect the resource to keep the dollars coming up I-95.

But it's nice to dream about a perfect world.

Woody

PS I like Mike's ideas, but would be inclined to eliminate the commercial fishery for stripers all together for they must do more for the economy as a sport fish than as a food fish.

[teezer]

I like the slot limit idea. Look at the redfish rebound down south. I also like the trophy tag. So when does it happen? Do you think it ever will?

[Grapenuts]

If commercial's can't keep/sell then lets play fair,neither can rec's keep any, even for the table..thing's are sounding more and more one sided all the time.....If you want more and larger fish, then everything goes back.

[Adam_777]

No draggers, Herring, Pogy boats 10 miles off the coast.1 Striper 24 to 30 .Caught with an over or under is loss of gear permanently and big fine .No Striper comms.Enforcement tripled and SW liscence heavily enforced.Littering on beach or jetty leads to ban from area for 6 months first offense.Plovers are off the endangered list and put on the ignored list.Dead seals collected in MA and awards to 50$ per seal (no limit).Mean high tide mark plus 20 ft is the law in all coastal states.All money from SW license goes to fishing related programs.By the time my rules are done being listed the day would be over and we'd be right where we are today.Reality check !

[BassDawg]

if i were THE Atlantic Fishery KING for a day:

1) i would ban the taking of ALL Menhaden for 4 years. PERIOD!!
....does anyone else long for the days of yore when you could *walk from one side of the Narragansett to the other* on the backs of pogies??

2) i would grant Morone Saxatilis immediate gamefish status
....sorry commershies, draggers, et al ~~but if it's between YOU and our beloved prey???

3) i would make the SW Liscenses reciprocal among the NE states with ALL revenues going to research/fisheries mgmnt 50/50 and everyone desiring a Striper would have to purchase an annual Striped Bass stamp. the dollars from the SB Stamp fee would be designated 1/2 to enforcement and 1/2 to Parks and Recreations Depts throughout NE to restore bass stands, provide for increased/secure parking, more trash barrels, and decent Parks that would be verrrry user friendly to include access for the handicapped, children, and the elderly anglers of our recreation.
....hey if FL can pull it off ~~~~~WHY THE HELL CAIN'T WE??!!!

4) i would institute a No Nets Zone from 5 miles out>><<inward, for 5 years ~~thereby removing the appearrances of a fish grab by actions (1) and (2).
....i am with eben, bry, and others who've previously stated that a fish grab benefits neither species nor estuary and let's let the fishery itself decide who gets killed and who doesn't as oppossed to man's incessant raping of both Bay and fishes for a proactive CHANGE!

5) i would enact a slot limit from 30" - 36", 1 per day; or 1 per month over 45", per the months of June thru November for the next five years. then after the five years expired, i would increase the taking of Lahhhge to twice a month for 5 more years with a 40" min. when those five years expired, i would switch it up again by making the trophy minimum 50", 2 per month for the next ten years.
....let's see what that could do for the stock's biomass?!!?

6) i would also launch an intense C&R Campaign(educ/ads) and Program with rewards and incentives for the high liners of the week, month, season in a sort of Tournament format that could be corporately sponsored. with an entry fee one would get a Boga scale, a throw away digital, and C&R forms that need be verified by at least one other angler.
....*look out Striper Cup,,,,,,,i'm coming to GIT ya!*

7) lastly, i agree with Vic!!! we need sum former Navy Seals types, ex-Marines, WE NEEDS the Green Berets of DEP to enforce my new royal decrees!!! YUP! and you bess have yer SB Stamp, becuz my zero tolerance for the first infraction w/ SW Lics suspension and jailtime for repeat offenders should skeer the bejesus outta the w/e poacharriors. why not install cameras at many of your more troublesome spots??
....expensive, yes! needed,,,,,,,,,ABSOLUTELY!!
a heavy hammer, struck well, shapes fine metal.

[numbskull]

Commercial slot limit, 30-42", over that they go back.
Recreational, 1 fish 36"+
Charter should be a separate category. 1 fish per customer, 30-42" and one fish per trip (ie per boat) over 42". Capt and mate get none.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Commercial slot limit, 30-42", over that they go back.
Recreational, 1 fish 36"+
Charter should be a separate category. 1 fish per customer, 30-42" and one fish per trip (ie per boat) over 42". Capt and mate get none.

holy crap
Numby thinks just like me
same exact measurements I picked also

[mosholu]

I would use the funds from a SW license scheme to compensate draggers to switch to other type gear and then have a limit on how close they can fish. Whether it should be 3, 5 or 6 miles I do not know. After the draggers are paid money goes into conservation and enforcement. I agree with Mike P on the 50% income requirement as a prerequisite for a com license. I would greatly restrict the commercial fishing for bunker and herring (but I do not know enough about the business to recommend how). One striper per day 30+ measured the old way from the fork of the tail, charter boats included. Uniform size limits for all states.

[NIB]

We had the 24-28" slot in NJ u would be surprised how many fish got killed that way.Killin fish that never get a chance to spawn is not good math IMO.
I would be happy with one @ 36" coast wide.
How can I get a MA com license to supplement my hobby.??

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I would limit participation to people that derive at least 50% of their gross annual income from the sale of fin and shellfish. Commercial fishing will mean exactly that, not a means for recs to defray the cost of a hobby.

So long as every other occupation can claim the same, you're fine with this rule. Carpenters have to make 50% or more as a carpenter, Plumbers, Mechanics, Salespeople, Teachers, etc.. etc..

This is hypocrisy, imo.. I'd bet there aren't many comm. fisherman out there that dont' supplement their income with things other than fishing. Why would it be okay for them to supplement their income with part time jobs, and not okay for others to do the same fishing? Should we ban comm fisherman from other means of supplementing their income even if it's just a portion of their income?

I like the rest of your proposal, with a two fish limit. Keep some big fish, but with a limited number of tags. I'm okay with that, it's not a lot different than tagging deer and it would work. Keep your trophies and be selective as to the ones you take.


I'd still like to know what the prime spawning ages and sizes are for Stripes. Can anyone answer that question? Without that info, any slot limit is asinine and a guess at best.

(edit) Plus, the more I think about it.. What's the difference anyways? A smaller fish will become a breeder at some point, so if you take it out of the population, it's all the same. A quantity limit is really the only thing that makes sense, no?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Brian L

I'd still like to know what the prime spawning ages and sizes are for Stripes. Can anyone answer that question? Without that info, any slot limit is asinine and a guess at best.

(edit) Plus, the more I think about it.. What's the difference anyways? A smaller fish will become a breeder at some point, so if you take it out of the population, it's all the same. A quantity limit is really the only thing that makes sense, no?

Fecundity in Striped Bass increases with age. Older fish spawn at a different end of the spawning season than smaller fish, which helps improve the the species spawning success (since conditions for egg survival may vary month to month). The eggs of older fish have better lipid content which also improves egg survival. The number of eggs a fish lays increases expontentially rather than linearly with size. Most importantly, the eggs of larger fish obviously possess the valuable genetic traits for size and survival. Finally, the possibility of catching a trophy fish is of greater economic value than the the possibility of eating that fish, whereas the possibility of eating a smaller fish is of greater economic value than catching it. How many guys drive hours, rent rooms, buy expensive boats, tackle, and vehicles to haul it, in order to chase small fish? How many do so to target larger fish? On the other hand, does the fish market charge more for a pound of large fish than for a pound of small fish? Why not?

So once again, why are slot limits which ensure a balanced population asinine?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Brian L

So long as every other occupation can claim the same, you're fine with this rule. Carpenters have to make 50% or more as a carpenter, Plumbers, Mechanics, Salespeople, Teachers, etc.. etc..

This is hypocrisy, imo.. I'd bet there aren't many comm. fisherman out there that dont' supplement their income with things other than fishing. Why would it be okay for them to supplement their income with part time jobs, and not okay for others to do the same fishing? Should we ban comm fisherman from other means of supplementing their income even if it's just a portion of their income?

Because the vast majority of people who hold Mass commercial licenses aren't doing it as any kind of "occupation". They're using a license, and a fishery that's supposed to be reserved for making a living, as a means to defray the cost of their hobby.

If you think otherwise, you're being naive.

I love this "part-time job" analogy. It's a pure fantasy. Guys take vacation time from their day jobs to do it.

[Nebe]

one at 36 is growing on me.

However, if I was king, id send all you jamokes to China and keep all the bass for myself

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Because the vast majority of people who hold Mass commercial licenses aren't doing it as any kind of "occupation". They're using a license, and a fishery that's supposed to be reserved for making a living, as a means to defray the cost of their hobby.

If you think otherwise, you're being naive.

I love this "part-time job" analogy. It's a pure fantasy. Guys take vacation time from their day jobs to do it.

You may have missed my point. It's not that I think anyone's making an occupation of selling Bass. It's the opposite, I don't think anyone COULD make a living on R+R fishing, so it would be silly (to me) to suggest that comm. Bass fishing should only be done by "full time" comm anglers. They'd be out of a job and out of business quickly. I'm struggling with the thought of a 3-4 week fishery being "reserved for those making a living". It's a part time fishery, therefore the majority of those participating in it do it part time.(and wisely so)

Who is anyone to stipulate what the people do with the fish money once they earn it? It's a free country. Pay for your hobby or pay your rent..

Sounds like you're suggesting that only people who make the majority of their money catching and selling fish all year should be able to participate in the Bass season. I say hooey.. If there are folks that want it that way, I wonder how they'd feel if they were shut out of doing any non-fishing related side work if they weren't in that occupation by trade?

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Fecundity in Striped Bass increases with age. Older fish spawn at a different end of the spawning season than smaller fish, which helps improve the the species spawning success (since conditions for egg survival may vary month to month). The eggs of older fish have better lipid content which also improves egg survival. The number of eggs a fish lays increases expontentially rather than linearly with size. Most importantly, the eggs of larger fish obviously possess the valuable genetic traits for size and survival. Finally, the possibility of catching a trophy fish is of greater economic value than the the possibility of eating that fish, whereas the possibility of eating a smaller fish is of greater economic value than catching it. How many guys drive hours, rent rooms, buy expensive boats, tackle, and vehicles to haul it, in order to chase small fish? How many do so to target larger fish? On the other hand, does the fish market charge more for a pound of large fish than for a pound of small fish? Why not?

So once again, why are slot limits which ensure a balanced population asinine?

Nice info, and thanks for sharing it. I didn't say slot limits were asinine, I was suggesting that making a slot limit without the type of data you presented would be asinine. I would agree that the slot would have to be based on the size fish that would least hurt the developing population. That info does leave more questions than answers, though. What size fish are you referring to when you say "larger"? Where would that slot length be based off of your info? How many eggs does a slot length fish lay? I also wonder how many of those eggs reach maturity on average. Also, I wonder if there are less fish laying eggs, do more eggs from each "litter" reach maturity due to less competition from other litters? (therefore a similar amount of fish reaching maturity regardless of how many fish are laying eggs)

Still though, you are either taking a future layer of thousands of eggs out of the mix or a current layer of thousands of eggs out of the mix. Either way, depending on the size of the fish, you're having some type of shorter or longer term impact on the population, so how does a slot work for sure? A slot would certainly ensure the taking of one specific year class for several years in a row. Without a slot, I wonder if you may have different people taking different size fish for different reasons.(bigger ones for trophies, smaller ones for food, etc..) and (potentially) a more varied removal of fish from the population.

Actually, I've seen a variance in the price of fish at the RI markets for the smaller size fish. I've often gotten more for the 34-38" fish because they are in higher demand in certain markets. I couldn't tell you what those markets are for sure, but I believe it's the sushi buyers.

[NIB]

People seam to equate a slot limit to a smaller fish and a larger fish.
I don't think a smaller fish is a good idea.They are too easy to catch.The user groups and the party boats love the smaller slot..I have seen the carnage here in NJ..Fish taken are fish removed.If more fish are removed.Tell me how that is better for the fishery.
Sure the larger fish are the breeders. If you run a prolonged slot limit with smaller and larger scale.In time you won't have breeders either.Then what...??
There used to be a 18" min size and the smalls where the prefered market size..No limit..
IMO the removal of large amounts of small fish was a large part of what lead to the demise that put us in a moratorium in the first place.
If u want a better fishery I still say 1 @ 36" is ur best bet.
With trophy fish considerations Like 1 @ 48 or better.
Tougher fish to catch.This will increase the odds of them getting to a size that is better for spawning.
If u want some tasty little ones go poach a few in the middle of the night.
It's good to be the King...

[Brian L]

36" seems like a popular number. How come?

[Crafty Angler]

In Florida, just as an example, the DNR has had remarkable success with using a slot limit to bring redfish back from the brink and the same has been true with snook with the additional closure for part of the year during their spawning period.

Whatever is done to change recreational regulations at this point, my greatest hope is that the institution of the saltwater fishing license will give NMFS a more accurate data base on the recreational catch rates which will in turn give them the solid information needed for stock assessments. And I still say the rec figures are going to be hard to swallow for some people. At any rate, it will be better than the gaze and guess method of data collection that is currently being used.

The one disturbing element I don't see being discussed, however, is management of forage species, most notably menhaden. (And the first guy to bring up Ark Bait gets this -it's the reduction fleet of Omega Protein that's the culprit).

Whatever is done, coastwide compliance throughout the range of striped bass is the key and that requires a strictly enforced federal mandate.