OK--you're king for a day

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by Mike P

I would limit participation to people that derive at least 50% of their gross annual income from the sale of fin and shellfish. Commercial fishing will mean exactly that, not a means for recs to defray the cost of a hobby.

So long as every other occupation can claim the same, you're fine with this rule. Carpenters have to make 50% or more as a carpenter, Plumbers, Mechanics, Salespeople, Teachers, etc.. etc..

This is hypocrisy, imo.. I'd bet there aren't many comm. fisherman out there that dont' supplement their income with things other than fishing. Why would it be okay for them to supplement their income with part time jobs, and not okay for others to do the same fishing? Should we ban comm fisherman from other means of supplementing their income even if it's just a portion of their income?

I like the rest of your proposal, with a two fish limit. Keep some big fish, but with a limited number of tags. I'm okay with that, it's not a lot different than tagging deer and it would work. Keep your trophies and be selective as to the ones you take.


I'd still like to know what the prime spawning ages and sizes are for Stripes. Can anyone answer that question? Without that info, any slot limit is asinine and a guess at best.

(edit) Plus, the more I think about it.. What's the difference anyways? A smaller fish will become a breeder at some point, so if you take it out of the population, it's all the same. A quantity limit is really the only thing that makes sense, no?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Brian L

I'd still like to know what the prime spawning ages and sizes are for Stripes. Can anyone answer that question? Without that info, any slot limit is asinine and a guess at best.

(edit) Plus, the more I think about it.. What's the difference anyways? A smaller fish will become a breeder at some point, so if you take it out of the population, it's all the same. A quantity limit is really the only thing that makes sense, no?

Fecundity in Striped Bass increases with age. Older fish spawn at a different end of the spawning season than smaller fish, which helps improve the the species spawning success (since conditions for egg survival may vary month to month). The eggs of older fish have better lipid content which also improves egg survival. The number of eggs a fish lays increases expontentially rather than linearly with size. Most importantly, the eggs of larger fish obviously possess the valuable genetic traits for size and survival. Finally, the possibility of catching a trophy fish is of greater economic value than the the possibility of eating that fish, whereas the possibility of eating a smaller fish is of greater economic value than catching it. How many guys drive hours, rent rooms, buy expensive boats, tackle, and vehicles to haul it, in order to chase small fish? How many do so to target larger fish? On the other hand, does the fish market charge more for a pound of large fish than for a pound of small fish? Why not?

So once again, why are slot limits which ensure a balanced population asinine?

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Fecundity in Striped Bass increases with age. Older fish spawn at a different end of the spawning season than smaller fish, which helps improve the the species spawning success (since conditions for egg survival may vary month to month). The eggs of older fish have better lipid content which also improves egg survival. The number of eggs a fish lays increases expontentially rather than linearly with size. Most importantly, the eggs of larger fish obviously possess the valuable genetic traits for size and survival. Finally, the possibility of catching a trophy fish is of greater economic value than the the possibility of eating that fish, whereas the possibility of eating a smaller fish is of greater economic value than catching it. How many guys drive hours, rent rooms, buy expensive boats, tackle, and vehicles to haul it, in order to chase small fish? How many do so to target larger fish? On the other hand, does the fish market charge more for a pound of large fish than for a pound of small fish? Why not?

So once again, why are slot limits which ensure a balanced population asinine?

Nice info, and thanks for sharing it. I didn't say slot limits were asinine, I was suggesting that making a slot limit without the type of data you presented would be asinine. I would agree that the slot would have to be based on the size fish that would least hurt the developing population. That info does leave more questions than answers, though. What size fish are you referring to when you say "larger"? Where would that slot length be based off of your info? How many eggs does a slot length fish lay? I also wonder how many of those eggs reach maturity on average. Also, I wonder if there are less fish laying eggs, do more eggs from each "litter" reach maturity due to less competition from other litters? (therefore a similar amount of fish reaching maturity regardless of how many fish are laying eggs)

Still though, you are either taking a future layer of thousands of eggs out of the mix or a current layer of thousands of eggs out of the mix. Either way, depending on the size of the fish, you're having some type of shorter or longer term impact on the population, so how does a slot work for sure? A slot would certainly ensure the taking of one specific year class for several years in a row. Without a slot, I wonder if you may have different people taking different size fish for different reasons.(bigger ones for trophies, smaller ones for food, etc..) and (potentially) a more varied removal of fish from the population.

Actually, I've seen a variance in the price of fish at the RI markets for the smaller size fish. I've often gotten more for the 34-38" fish because they are in higher demand in certain markets. I couldn't tell you what those markets are for sure, but I believe it's the sushi buyers.

[NIB]

People seam to equate a slot limit to a smaller fish and a larger fish.
I don't think a smaller fish is a good idea.They are too easy to catch.The user groups and the party boats love the smaller slot..I have seen the carnage here in NJ..Fish taken are fish removed.If more fish are removed.Tell me how that is better for the fishery.
Sure the larger fish are the breeders. If you run a prolonged slot limit with smaller and larger scale.In time you won't have breeders either.Then what...??
There used to be a 18" min size and the smalls where the prefered market size..No limit..
IMO the removal of large amounts of small fish was a large part of what lead to the demise that put us in a moratorium in the first place.
If u want a better fishery I still say 1 @ 36" is ur best bet.
With trophy fish considerations Like 1 @ 48 or better.
Tougher fish to catch.This will increase the odds of them getting to a size that is better for spawning.
If u want some tasty little ones go poach a few in the middle of the night.
It's good to be the King...

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Brian L

So long as every other occupation can claim the same, you're fine with this rule. Carpenters have to make 50% or more as a carpenter, Plumbers, Mechanics, Salespeople, Teachers, etc.. etc..

This is hypocrisy, imo.. I'd bet there aren't many comm. fisherman out there that dont' supplement their income with things other than fishing. Why would it be okay for them to supplement their income with part time jobs, and not okay for others to do the same fishing? Should we ban comm fisherman from other means of supplementing their income even if it's just a portion of their income?

Because the vast majority of people who hold Mass commercial licenses aren't doing it as any kind of "occupation". They're using a license, and a fishery that's supposed to be reserved for making a living, as a means to defray the cost of their hobby.

If you think otherwise, you're being naive.

I love this "part-time job" analogy. It's a pure fantasy. Guys take vacation time from their day jobs to do it.

[Brian L]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Because the vast majority of people who hold Mass commercial licenses aren't doing it as any kind of "occupation". They're using a license, and a fishery that's supposed to be reserved for making a living, as a means to defray the cost of their hobby.

If you think otherwise, you're being naive.

I love this "part-time job" analogy. It's a pure fantasy. Guys take vacation time from their day jobs to do it.

You may have missed my point. It's not that I think anyone's making an occupation of selling Bass. It's the opposite, I don't think anyone COULD make a living on R+R fishing, so it would be silly (to me) to suggest that comm. Bass fishing should only be done by "full time" comm anglers. They'd be out of a job and out of business quickly. I'm struggling with the thought of a 3-4 week fishery being "reserved for those making a living". It's a part time fishery, therefore the majority of those participating in it do it part time.(and wisely so)

Who is anyone to stipulate what the people do with the fish money once they earn it? It's a free country. Pay for your hobby or pay your rent..

Sounds like you're suggesting that only people who make the majority of their money catching and selling fish all year should be able to participate in the Bass season. I say hooey.. If there are folks that want it that way, I wonder how they'd feel if they were shut out of doing any non-fishing related side work if they weren't in that occupation by trade?