America today

[Flaptail]

Where are we today as Americans? Are we better off? Are we respected in the world? Are we moral or immoral as a nation? The anniversary of this nation's founding brings cause to reflect and think of these things. I believe we as a nation must take a collective breath and step back from the world stage and look to heal ourselves before we go forth back into the world to be the leaders we once were.

This country needs to heal the family wounds before we can offer assistance to any other. Unfortunately there are people in the world who will suffer intolerable tragedy but in order to properly help them we must help ourselves first. Isolationist as this may seem, at this point in time, it is the only course America can take before we drop further into the abyss of our spiraling problems.

20% percent of Americans hold 50% of the countries wealth. The cost of living outpaces the average workers paycheck by a ever widening percentage. No country can survive if the population's income continues to lose ground with the cost of surviving. Dual income families are a must, Living paycheck to paycheck is a common thing and savings accounts continue to become less common. Debt ratios climb as corporate greed runs rampant and unwilling legislators continue to look the other way. Paying for gas, groceries with a credit card, unless you are among the fortunate few who can pay the monthly balance in full, is insane at 18 to 22%.

Our policy of forced democratizion on countries whose existence has been and will be for centuries governed by tribal and other less than democratic principles must cease. Conversion by force is not the answer.

Lastly our own government has become one of an imperial nature where civil liberties have been tossed out in the name of Homeland defense. A situation created by failed policy and inept leadership both at home and across the global front by the current and recent past administrations. We bring to bear on places we have no business interfering our will without a clear understanding of another's culture and history. There are just causes and unjust causes. Iraq was an unjust cause in my opinion for military intervention. Bin Laden and Al-Qaida was and is a true just cause for intervention as was Hiltler and Japan in the 40's. Our most valuable resources of young American lives, as in Vietnam, are being wasted when the true perpertrator's of the problems in the world continue to raise arms in hate in the name of radical religious extremism(s).

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

[basswipe]

That's one hell of a big foot stuck in that door.Getting it closed is gonna be a bitch.

Agreed...how the hell can we go about the world telling others to live a certain way when we seem to have lost our own way?

As far as respect for the US.....little to none these days.Mostly because of a moronic war that should have ended the day that soldier found Saddam Hussein in a hole.At that moment there should have been a single gunshot to his head immediately followed by our president saying "C'mon home boys!Great job!"

As far as Bin Laden goes we have the resources to quietly hunt his ass down behind the scenes so as not to piss off the rest of the world.But since we have pissed off the rest of the world ain't no one going to give him up.I know this:if the US had withdrawn from Iraq immediately following Hussein's capture the likelyhood of us finding Bin Laden by now would be very good and our relationship with the rest of the world would be a lot better.

[Shake N' Bake]

Originally Posted by basswipe

That's one hell of a big foot stuck in that door.Getting it closed is gonna be a bitch.

Agreed...how the hell can we go about the world telling others to live a certain way when we seem to have lost our own way?

As far as respect for the US.....little to none these days.Mostly because of a moronic war that should have ended the day that soldier found Saddam Hussein in a hole.At that moment there should have been a single gunshot to his head immediately followed by our president saying "C'mon home boys!Great job!"

As far as Bin Laden goes we have the resources to quietly hunt his ass down behind the scenes so as not to piss off the rest of the world.But since we have pissed off the rest of the world ain't no one going to give him up.I know this:if the US had withdrawn from Iraq immediately following Hussein's capture the likelyhood of us finding Bin Laden by now would be very good and our relationship with the rest of the world would be a lot better.

BassWipe in 2008!
You could go Republican, Visit Walker's Point, Fish on OUR Boats and have the SS bait your line.
Putin did OK.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by Shake N' Bake

BassWipe in 2008!
You could go Republican, Visit Walker's Point, Fish on OUR Boats and have the SS bait your line.
Putin did OK.

These are statements made in reality.Most politicians are aware of reality they just refuse to accept as it could jeopardize their "careers"(re-election).

IMO there have only been two presidents in the past 100yrs who accepted reality and then confronted it:FDR and Reagan.Our current and past one simply appear to not even have been aware of reality.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

Steve, i agree wholeheartedly, but who and where are these men of character and integrity,

similar to our founding fathers, that will lead us to this end?

[Raven]

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

[Joe]

Yet there are still people who come here with very little and within one generation their sons and daughters enter the professional class and they themselves become successful business people.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by Flapgums

20% percent of Americans hold 50% of the countries wealth.

Most likely these people EARNED it. So you are going to hold it against them?

Originally Posted by Flapgums

The cost of living outpaces the average workers paycheck by a ever widening percentage. No country can survive if the population's income continues to lose ground with the cost of surviving. Dual income families are a must, Living paycheck to paycheck is a common thing and savings accounts continue to become less common.

Blame Alan Greenspan. Blame the Chinese. Blame the Indians.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

Debt ratios climb as corporate greed runs rampant and unwilling legislators continue to look the other way.

Non-sequiter. Gov't deficit spending is only part of the problem. We also have huge imbalances in the trade deficit and nobody is saving money. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Nobody pointed a gun at Joe America's head and said "hey, lever up with a sub-prime negative amortization mortage, and hey, we got zero percent auto loans for you and hey, here's a credit card, go buy some cheap Chinese flat-screen TV on it and pay for it thirty years later."

It's the other way around - eventually corporate America is gonna get HURT because stupid Americans can't control themselves while spending themselves silly into an AVERAGE NEGATIVE SAVINGS RATE nationwide.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

Paying for gas, groceries with a credit card, unless you are among the fortunate few who can pay the monthly balance in full, is insane at 18 to 22%.

Then don't do it. Cut back on other things and pay for stuff with cash. If your rate is too high, then you can always shop around. If you shop around (rates are still at historical lows for preferred credit), and your rate is still too high, then you probably have $hitty credit (irresponsible or have too much outstanding) and SHOULDN'T have access to any more borrowing capacity.

[justplugit]

"Whatever happened to personal responsbility".

Yeah but Joe American down the street has a flat screen tv, aren't i entitled to have it too, right now? Geez, i only have a 27inch color i really need the 52inch, it's going to make me much happier. NOT.

I also need this new $500 phone, mine will only take pics and allow txt messsaging, i need more than that in my phone. NOT.



Wouldn't be bad if 90% of the stuff people bought was fueling our own American companies, who as bad as they're suppose to be, keep people employed, offer benefits and who's stock fuels retirement plans.

We are living in the ME generation, which in mho is driving itself crazy buying stuff, and working all kind of hours to support the habit.


All the freedoms you could ask for, without the responsibility. Can't last. We don't need anymore stuff, we need the wisdom to get THINGS under control.

[Shake N' Bake]

Originally Posted by Raven

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

If I had to Vote tomorrow...Bill Richardson

[fishbones]

Lots of great points here. In my opinion, we need to keep illegals out of the country, as they are a drain on our economic system, we need to put criminals in jail and keep them there, and we need to use our social service programs for what they were originally developed and intended for. Welfare is supposed to help people who are having a tough time get back on their feet. It's not a lifestyle meant to keep people from having to work and contribute to society by paying taxes. People should be forced to at least work part-time if they want to live off of everybody elses money. There are plenty of jobs available out there and most people who are on welfare could qualify for one. One of the great things about about this country is that you have an opportunity to better yourself. If you have to take a crappy job, you can work hard and move up to something better. Also, people have to be smart about their own finances. DON'T SPEND WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE AND DON'T BUY WHAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD. While I'm at it, parents should not let their children leave the house dressed as hoodlums (sorry, but that just drives me nuts). And I think Raven put it best... a little civility and manners would go a long way in making this country a better place to live. All that being said, I would not want to live anywhere else. The U.S.A is still the best country in the world. And there is some pretty good fishing, to boot.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

We need to stop voting for the same buffoons every time they come up for re-election, no question about it. But what really decent person runs for office nowadays. You could be lily-white, perfect, but to make the monthly Neilson rating, some news stations would try to make being nice a crime.

The politicians as well as many of us have become greedy, self-absorbed, get out of my way persons. Working for and toward a positive outcome/solution to any worthwhile endeavour has taken a backseat to the scratch card mentality that prevails in todays society.

It is what it is and it "is" our fault.