America today

[Raven]

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

[Joe]

Yet there are still people who come here with very little and within one generation their sons and daughters enter the professional class and they themselves become successful business people.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by Flapgums

20% percent of Americans hold 50% of the countries wealth.

Most likely these people EARNED it. So you are going to hold it against them?

Originally Posted by Flapgums

The cost of living outpaces the average workers paycheck by a ever widening percentage. No country can survive if the population's income continues to lose ground with the cost of surviving. Dual income families are a must, Living paycheck to paycheck is a common thing and savings accounts continue to become less common.

Blame Alan Greenspan. Blame the Chinese. Blame the Indians.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

Debt ratios climb as corporate greed runs rampant and unwilling legislators continue to look the other way.

Non-sequiter. Gov't deficit spending is only part of the problem. We also have huge imbalances in the trade deficit and nobody is saving money. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Nobody pointed a gun at Joe America's head and said "hey, lever up with a sub-prime negative amortization mortage, and hey, we got zero percent auto loans for you and hey, here's a credit card, go buy some cheap Chinese flat-screen TV on it and pay for it thirty years later."

It's the other way around - eventually corporate America is gonna get HURT because stupid Americans can't control themselves while spending themselves silly into an AVERAGE NEGATIVE SAVINGS RATE nationwide.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

Paying for gas, groceries with a credit card, unless you are among the fortunate few who can pay the monthly balance in full, is insane at 18 to 22%.

Then don't do it. Cut back on other things and pay for stuff with cash. If your rate is too high, then you can always shop around. If you shop around (rates are still at historical lows for preferred credit), and your rate is still too high, then you probably have $hitty credit (irresponsible or have too much outstanding) and SHOULDN'T have access to any more borrowing capacity.

[justplugit]

"Whatever happened to personal responsbility".

Yeah but Joe American down the street has a flat screen tv, aren't i entitled to have it too, right now? Geez, i only have a 27inch color i really need the 52inch, it's going to make me much happier. NOT.

I also need this new $500 phone, mine will only take pics and allow txt messsaging, i need more than that in my phone. NOT.



Wouldn't be bad if 90% of the stuff people bought was fueling our own American companies, who as bad as they're suppose to be, keep people employed, offer benefits and who's stock fuels retirement plans.

We are living in the ME generation, which in mho is driving itself crazy buying stuff, and working all kind of hours to support the habit.


All the freedoms you could ask for, without the responsibility. Can't last. We don't need anymore stuff, we need the wisdom to get THINGS under control.

[Raven]

technological advances are changing our society... in many ways...

like the merging of the tv and telephone and or the computer....
it seems like soon they are going to be all one gadget...
yet the simple act of communicating...
has become more strained an endeavor when it should've become
that much easier. it sure bugs me sometimes that we are all players..
it's an avoidance game of text messaging , voice mails, e- mails , faxes , snail mail and memo's. human interaction is becoming less and less.

People advert their eyes and pretend to be looking elsewhere at something holding their interest that isn't even there... afraid to lock eyes
and make contact...
yeah right... it's as transparent as celephane...
like i'm fooled by your little ploy...lady, as i stared at her venomously for almost running her BJ's shopping cart into my wife...tonight...uncaring.. beotch... as she tries to fake out no one.

we might all ask ourselves where has all the courtesy gone....

as i make my way in Society sometimes i go way out of my way to be extra kind or courteous just to get another human beings reaction to this special treatment that at one time was concidered normal yet now it is the exception.... or percieved as a deliverance of insanity spam.

then there's the perception of reality that in essence everyone is basically sane... as you all hurry on by when in the true reality everyone is only acting rational and coherent
....an act they have mastered...
when in reality they are mostly borderline neurotic or have some deep seated emotional issues that are just a scratch below the public facade waiting to bubble up to the surface.

[Flaptail]

Bassturbeb, I love you. But, when American companies Like say, Levi's Jeans for example, give thier CEO's a 22 million dollar bonus for shutting down and moving them to China/Singapore/Mexico and VietNam, don't you find that disturbing.

BTW, I have several credit cards and no balance on any one of them. I pay cash for big ticket items like cars, which on the whole are a really poor investment wouldn't you agree? Especially expensive American ones?

You see things from the invetor/business side but I see things from the introspective side, what you say is true but my point is we need to fix the way most americans do business in thier daily lives so they stop the reckless behavior when it comes to personal finance. Most people, if not the majority of our population are fiscally inept and generally uneducated in the art of money. Typical example would be the fool who waits for his big refund check each year from Uncle Sam. Nothing like giving the Goverment a free loan that makes them interest and you nothing. But Ahh that check!

Teaching personal responsibility is what is needed. If not most will never naturally be able to acquire it. We need to fix a lot of things in this country. Believing that it will fix itself and doing nothing but casting the critical eye will only makes you more blind to the reality.

The government of this country and the administration there of has veered way off the course of it's original intent. More a kingdom than a free democracy each day.

[Backbeach Jake]

It wouldn't hurt this Country to take a long, honest look in the mirror anymore than it would hurt an individual to. And not in the typical narcissic way that's become derigor these days. Personal assessment and personal responsibility for the individual and the nation would be a great step in the right direction. That and stop electing crooks and cheats.

[justplugit]

You nailed it Rav, and it always comes down to individual choices, responsibility, and character,
wehther it be how we treat others, or what is best for our country.


We can choose to hold the door open, or show some kindness to another, or just walk on by.


A politican can choose wether to become a true statesman, make the hard decesions for the good of the country,
or do whatever he needs to do to get re-elected and line his own pockets.


Our pool of people with integrity and character is dwindling,
and along with it the chances of finding the kind of people needed to make this country great again.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by Flapgums

...when American companies Like say, Levi's Jeans for example, give thier CEO's a 22 million dollar bonus for shutting down and moving them to China/Singapore/Mexico and VietNam, don't you find that disturbing.

That's capitalism. CEO's have no duty to society at large. CEO's are beholden to the company's shareholders and the duty of the CEO is to maximize profits.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

BTW, I have several credit cards and no balance on any one of them. I pay cash for big ticket items like cars, which on the whole are a really poor investment wouldn't you agree? Especially expensive American ones?

Most cars are not "investments." They are rapidly depreciating assets and cash flow liabilities. At some point, it makes more sense to lease them than own them (maybe less the case nowadays with overall quality and reliability improving). To me, cars are nothing more than tools to get you and your stuff from point A to point B. But then, I am not a "car" guy.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

...we need to fix the way most americans do business in thier daily lives so they stop the reckless behavior when it comes to personal finance. Most people, if not the majority of our population are fiscally inept and generally uneducated in the art of money.

We teach all this useless crap in high school and college. Financial literacy is something that really needs to be mainstreamed into our educational system.

Originally Posted by Flapgums

The government of this country and the administration there of has veered way off the course of it's original intent. More a kingdom than a free democracy each day.

Well, I don't think I disagree with you in substance on this point. Every new law that gets passed by the fed.gov means that there will be more criminals created at the drop of the hat.

I am not happy with the burgeoning size of the fed.gov, whose growth just feeds on its own existence. I don't like that we are fighting wars or funding social programs that will be paid for out of our children's pockets. I don't like one bit that our civil liberties are being steadily eroded. But to blame it ALL on President Bush (Patriot Act excepted) is neither accurate nor fair.

We get the government we deserve.

[Shake N' Bake]

Originally Posted by Raven

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

If I had to Vote tomorrow...Bill Richardson