IG Report

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim says it's black culture that drives criminal activity.
.

Blacks who embrace traditional family values, do just fine.

In the 1950s, the nation was at the height of racial segregation, and black fatherlessness was less than half of what it is today. Therefore, it's not racism driving this, if it was, fatherlessness would have been higher when racism was more predominant.

Robbing poor people of their ability to rise out of poverty, and making them addicted to welfare instead, is also a stupid and short-sighted policy. And it's a cornerstone of liberalism.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Black Kids Aren’t “Illegitimate,” Your Data Comprehension is: Racist Lies About Out-of-Wedlock Birthrates
https://medium.com/@timjwise/black-k...k-836fa501b869

That article was a desperate, pathetic attempt to deflect from the truth.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I would have no idea where North Korea falls, is that a nation you wish to be compared to?

Well, the list was (supposed to be) the world, NK is part of it.

I mean you compared us to China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia with that list. Is that who you wish to compare us to? Do you think our criminals would get a fairer shake in those countries than here?

The US averages 35 executions a year, China over a 1000....maybe therein lies the answer. I mean they average a 1/4 less incarcerations than the US, but over 30 times as many executions.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Robbing poor people of their ability to rise out of poverty, and making them addicted to welfare instead, is also a stupid and short-sighted policy. And it's a cornerstone of liberalism.

This is what i refer to with Lifeguards or Swimming lessons.
If you had two groups of children and two pools
Group A was given a lifeguard and let loose at the pool.
Group B was given a lifeguard and swimming lessons, then let loose at the pool.
What do you think the result would be at the end of the summer?
I think welfare should be like lifeguards and swimming lessons, both necessary but swimming lessons make lifeguards far less important to swimming. The problem is you can't stop the lessons when they get in water too deep just because.
Some will provide lifeguards because you can't just let them die.
Some will provide lifeguards and swimming lessons because they want them to succeed, but another will cut the swimming lessons because they can just stay out of the pool.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, the list was (supposed to be) the world, NK is part of it.

I mean you compared us to China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia with that list. Is that who you wish to compare us to? Do you think our criminals would get a fairer shake in those countries than here?

The US averages 35 executions a year, China over a 1000....maybe therein lies the answer. I mean they average a 1/4 less incarcerations than the US, but over 30 times as many executions.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

You could argue that our moral compass is broken, leading many to break our laws. But that doesn't mean our criminal justice system is broken.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

Or has policy helped put them there? The War on Drugs has had a massive impact on incarceration of minorities and many argue it was a racially motivated to begin with.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Or has policy helped put them there? The War on Drugs has had a massive impact on incarceration of minorities and many argue it was a racially motivated to begin with.

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You could argue that our moral compass is broken, leading many to break our laws. But that doesn't mean our criminal justice system is broken.

If the goal is to make sure people are punished, then it works perfectly and crime increasing is an unfortunate but necessary byproduct.
I would assume you have never made a bad choice, and if you have luck has been on your side or you could afford good representation.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If the goal is to make sure people are punished, then it works perfectly and crime increasing is an unfortunate but necessary byproduct.
I would assume you have never made a bad choice, and if you have luck has been on your side or you could afford good representation.

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE? Has that aspect ever crossed your mind? You sure don't seem to give that any consideration.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE?

that's pretty racist

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

It's not a yes or no question.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

that's pretty racist

That's me, always wearing a white sheet.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

I think he was talking about any minority ever busted on a drug charge.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

It's not a yes or no question.

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

They break the law, get arrested, go to trial, are found guilty, and get sentenced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

I agree, asylum seekers usually ask 1st
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think he was talking about any minority ever busted on a drug charge.

Way to bring race into the conversation.

What’s a matter, was I making to much sense and you went for the usual trump card......RACIST!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

True, not if you're white. At least much less likely.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Way to bring race into the conversation.


....RACIST!!!


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'd be shocked if they didn't...

[Sea Dangles]

Haha, Spence is having a tough time quite often as of late. You guys should stop putting him in an awkward position. He should not have to explain his thought process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

They break the law, get arrested, go to trial, are found guilty, and get sentenced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They go to trial, where they have due process, they have an attorney, and there is a significant burden that gets met before anyone goes to prison. It ain't perfect, but it's the best system there is.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Haha, Spence is having a tough time quite often as of late. You guys should stop putting him in an awkward position. He should not have to explain his thought process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He is really coming un-glued.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Those were questions for Jim, why would I answer for him?
He seems to be quite capable, though I might disagree with his opinions.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If I was interested in his answer I would have asked him. I asked you why don't you give some answers in response to the list of questions you posed to Jim.

I also asked you what you would do to stop illegals from their misdemeanor activity of illegal border crossing? Would lowering our incarceration rate do the trick? Would it be fixed by answering the questions you posed to Jim such as: "What do you think people learn in prison? Do they learn useful skills that help them succeed in society? Do they learn how to be more successful at life from other criminals? Why do you think white people do not commit crimes? Is our crime rate because we do not have a lily white society? Don't forget Trump was very impressed by Duterte's war on drugs, that killed thousands of people, would you go along with that if he attempted that here?"

Would you simply do nothing? Would you do what past administrations did, which did not stop the misdemeaning. Would you punish the misdemeanors by giving them "a path to citizenship" or just letting them stay on some other basis? Would that stop the misdemeanor activity?

What the administration is doing seems appropriate to me. What would you do?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Clearly many feel the journey is worth the risk.

Clearly, all criminals feel crime is worth the risk. And, clearly, criminals do not think they should be punished.

If the status quo is unsustainable you have to change.

To which status quo are you referring? The national debt? The overextended welfare state? The relative ease of illegal immigration that is clearly worth the risk?

Just curious if he really practices what he's preached. I'd note even Jeff Session's own church rejected his biblical justification.

Why do you care, and how does what Jim practices re his religion impact his opinions about secular law--you know, that separation of church and state thingy?

[detbuch]

Pet F., I watched your The Gods Must Be Crazy movie. Twas interesting. Maybe you could watch this video a say a few words about it:

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE? Has that aspect ever crossed your mind? You sure don't seem to give that any consideration.

If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years.
There are no absolutes in life, you can no more stop crime with prison than by having more guns.
Do you think all criminals are inherently evil? And all people who have not been charged with a crime good?
I didn’t say we should not have jails, but that we should use them judiciously.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years.
There are no absolutes in life, you can no more stop crime with prison than by having more guns.
Do you think all criminals are inherently evil? And all people who have not been charged with a crime good?
I didn’t say we should not have jails, but that we should use them judiciously.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years."

How many people can a bad person hurt in "a few years"? A lot. You haven't given this much thought. Put down the Kool Aid for ten seconds, and think.

"Do you think all criminals are inherently evil?"

No. Some are unlucky.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Pet F., I watched your The Gods Must Be Crazy movie. Twas interesting. Maybe you could watch this video a say a few words about it:

His mother must have abused him.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device