Saltwater fishing license……Why or why not?

[Back Beach]

With the slow part of the season upon us, I’ve had some time to read up on a number of issues, the saltwater license in particular. The more I educate myself on the issue, the more sense it makes to me that we implement one.
Previously I reacted the same way as many would, fully dismissing it as “just another tax”, and another avenue for wasteful spending and creation of unnecessary beauraucracies. If you look at what some of the southern and gulf coast states have accomplished via the saltwater license, it’s reasonable to expect we’ll do the same at some point.
I’m not going to list all the pros and cons in this first post, but let’s get some informed debate started here and cover as many facets as possible.

Saltwater fishing license……Why or why not?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Why: Increased funds for enforcement, conservation, access etc.
Why not: It will go to the general fund and not help for any of the above.

I have no problem, even on my income scale of paying a few to fish, IF it helps out to the 'Why' above. I just don't want it to be 'another tax' to grease a state general fund.
(Must be slow at the course, huh Mike )

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Why not: It will go to the general fund and not help for any of the above.

Cool, lets start with that issue, because its a big one for everyone. Just so we don't inundate people here with too much info, one state in particular (NC I think) has a license revenue allocation breakout that mandates (legally) all license revenue be used soley for fisheries management. I think the G and A portion is about 8% of the revenue. The reference I'm using is "something's fishy" by Ted Williams, in case anyone has access to it or wants to quote some stuff here. There are well laid out arguments in favor of it and Williams takes a fairly objective position on it.

[lurch]

Would gladly pay for it IF and only IF it would NOT go in the general fund. If the law stated that if 1 cent of the money was to be put into the general fund the license fee would be removed.

I believe that Mass has something similar where all license monies must be used for the fisheries budget.

[MikeToole]

Because of the new federal regulation we are going to get a license whether we like it or not. If we had a New England coast wide license than I would be much more willing to support it. The biggest difference up here as compared to the gulf states is it is much more common for people to fish in 3 to 5 states. Knowing that the states are always looking for ways to get more money, especially from people who aren't in their voting district. I'm afraid of what the non-resident fees might be.

What we should be fighting for is a reciprocal agreement between the Northeast states where they accept each others license or at least allow you to buy a resident license, in each state, if you hold a license from your home state.

[BigFish]

My only reason for not wanting it is simple......nothing in this world is free anymore! Nothing! "Land of the Free"?????? Not anymore! The simplest thing in the world....fishing....should be free! The money never goes where its supposed to go...its just another ploy for the powers that be to have some more "play" money! There are other funds that go directly to support the fisheries such as the 10% Dingle Johnson tax that is paid on all items sold that are fishing related! That surely generates Millions of dollars! Just grabbing a rod and a can of worms and heading for open water can no longer be done......without it costing someone a ton of money in taxes!!!! Enough is enough in my opinion!!

Just say "NO" to a saltwater fishing license!!!!

[JohnR]

IIRC, Rhode Island's state laws call for all funds to be only destined for the general ledger and it is illegal for this to be set aside for something else first. Sounds stooopid but it is Rhode Island Government At Work

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

What we should be fighting for is a reciprocal agreement between the Northeast states where they accept each others license or at least allow you to buy a resident license, in each state, if you hold a license from your home state.

A degree of reciprocity would be in order. I know they do it in a number of inland areas. Lots of people, particulary boaters, who launch in one state and fish another.

One of the other points to ponder is would you rather fish under federal or state mandate?
Remember there are some big,powerful, and well funded environmental lobbies at work. They frequently use the fed as a vehicle to further their agenda. Look at CCNS for example.
With the fed's impending actions it would make more sense to me that we get ahead of the curve and take the license in house on a local level=proactive.

[Pete F.]

Last year I fished in Maine, New Hampshire, Mass and Rhode Island. I did'nt make the usual trip to NY.
If there come to be state liscenses what will that cost me?
Which states will I choose not to fish in?

[eastendlu]

Originally Posted by BigFish

My only reason for not wanting it is simple......nothing in this world is free anymore! Nothing! "Land of the Free"?????? Not anymore! The simplest thing in the world....fishing....should be free! The money never goes where its supposed to go...its just another ploy for the powers that be to have some more "play" money! There are other funds that go directly to support the fisheries such as the 10% Dingle Johnson tax that is paid on all items sold that are fishing related! That surely generates Millions of dollars! Just grabbing a rod and a can of worms and heading for open water can no longer be done......without it costing someone a ton of money in taxes!!!! Enough is enough in my opinion!!

Just say "NO" to a saltwater fishing license!!!!

I'm with the big guy!!

[Flaptail]

I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.

[Pete F.]

A lot of shops make some money renting rods to casual fisherman. Some of those become avid fisherman. If you make the entry more expensive you immediately cut the numbers. I think this is thought up by Peta.

[BW from AZ]

I'm not near the salt. I'm against it. I don't trust the politicians to keep their word. Example: they just amended a local 10 year old law regarding land use because it didn't fit the "NEW" plan. Land or water they will slowly get their hands on the money for their own purpose when it suits them.

[ilovetwofish]

I agree with both mike and big fish about multiple states and the money going to places other then fishing.To add a little to this, I have a small boat and a kayak and still fish from shore mostly. Maybe they could take some of the cash and by waterfront property and use it for a park that is acessable for fishing with a boat launch in multiple towns.Were running out of shore spots to fish because of private property.Also maybe hire more D.E.M. officers for enforcment and garbage removel from these fishing areas, then I wouldnt have a problem buying a freshwater and saltwater license.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.

Lots of good points Steve.
But, remember, there is already a license in place from Maryland south around through the gulf. Would be interested to hear if these issues presented themselves down there and how they were dealt with.
I'm not one for more EPO's either, but if the license revenues were to be directed by a collective voice, the potential impact is huge. Right now the recs are highly fragmented and unorganized in the northeast. A small, but organized group of commercial interests basically controls the bulk of our saltwater (MA) fishery now. Why? Because they are licensed, serve as a data source, and pay fees. Government knows who they are.
Right now nobody knows for sure who the recs are, how large their numbers, or what they really contribute(or take). The federal registry will be the first step in reversing this scenario. With the federal license a probable certainty within several years, I'm saying we get ahead of the curve and consider manging on a state/regional level before the feds(who cater to special interest $$ in many cases) do it for us.

[slow eddie]

if the monies derived from such sales were to go into fish related fund only, i would be for it.
if the monies were to go into the general fund, forgetaboutit. we do not need to be putting more monies into politicians pockets for them to do as they wish.
there is way to much n.i.m.b.y. stuff going on as it is. jamestown fishing pier, etc. my 2 cents

[Swimmer]

What will we do if each state enacts a license? All of us will have to stop fishing at the next states border. We are not going to buy several licenses, I doubt. I am with Larry on this. Everything we buy fishing related has a 10% tax on it now. What happens to that money? Probably the only reason we doubt have one is the elected officials haven't figured out who is going to get what job yet. Sorry for the cynicizm.

[cow tamer]

Then there are many who would most likely fish without a license. The same group that enforcement has always had trouble enforcing.

[DZ]

Salt Water license – always a popular topic. I remember taking part in the discussions on this topic here in Rhody a few years back. One of the biggest issues was a dedicated fund – the state reps said they could make it a dedicated fund but when pressed further they also admitted that any Governor could declare a state of emergency and use the funds for something more important. Knowing what great shape Rhody is in financially at this time and you can see that the dedicated funds may not be dedicated for long.

There was also a question of offsetting DEMs budget – another words the state would use the money generated by a license to fund DEMs budget. This would then allow the state to take away the “general fund” money that would normally fund DEM. So it basically would be a wash.

And as Flap says those that just want to spend some quality time on the beach with family may not spring for it. But then again, spending quality family time in sweet (fresh) water already has costs associated with it in every state.

Some advantages – weeding the amount of fishermen - part timers may give it up.

Using the license to guarantee access: RI was very receptive to the idea of allowing a salt water fishing license to provide free access to all state parks and camping areas such as Charlestown Breachway, Fort Adams.

One more comment - if one New England State does go for it - we all will. It will be reciprocal at least in bordering states.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by DZ

There was also a question of offsetting DEMs budget – another words the state would use the money generated by a license to fund DEMs budget. This would then allow the state to take away the “general fund” money that would normally fund DEM. So it basically would be a wash.

Good point too.
I would counter with how big is the budget now, and what is the potential revenue associated with the license? It may be much larger than what the state currently allocates and thus not a wash, but incremental revenue.It may also, but not likely, be smaller.

[MikeToole]

I think we may be missing the point, in that having some form of saltwater license is no longer a question. By the end of 2009 we will have one in some form or other due to new federal regulations. The real issue now is how will it be implemented.

I do not think that the states will expect to see a real decrease in the number of vacationers who will fish due to the need to purchase a license. People are willing to spend 400 for a family of four to see a three hour ball game, what would make them think the same wouldn't be true for fishing.

[ridler72]

Agree with others. As long as the money stays in fishery management, education and enforcement and not in a general fund I am for it.

[bloocrab]

I am against a SW Fishing License -

Whether is be that year or this year, the monies will NOT go where promised. We can discuss this all we want, but behind the scenes, the money will disappear...and nothing will get better for the TRUE fisherpeople -
It will not open access, nor will it stop from losing access to "spots".
Law enforcement, even if slightly increased...is not going to make the difference that one would think.
We all know we can poach/illegally harvest Bass without a problem....heck, look at the hours that most of us fish. Will it stop the weekend warrior??? ......maybe, will it make a difference in regards to the fish population/stock/status?.......what it will do is make the newspaper so it seems that this new license is in fact helping.....when in reality, it's not. And once they realize the revenue, more politicians will find ways to getting their piece of it.

We don't have a choice, it will happen -

...and when it does, I will illegally fish as long as I can.

[Pt.JudeJoe]

If you don't have legal status to be in the usa do you still have to buy a fishing license or will you be exempt?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

I think we may be missing the point, in that having some form of saltwater license is no longer a question. By the end of 2009 we will have one in some form or other due to new federal regulations. The real issue now is how will it be implemented.

I do not think that the states will expect to see a real decrease in the number of vacationers who will fish due to the need to purchase a license. People are willing to spend 400 for a family of four to see a three hour ball game, what would make them think the same wouldn't be true for fishing.

What federal regs? The states control the waters out to a certain point, no?

The impact will be to casual fisherman, people who's family go to the beach for a day and the dad brings along his rod, stops at a bait shop for sandworms, etc. Look how many guys run out to a bluefish blitz, now they need a liscence?

[RIJIMMY]

is the license for all fish, or just fishing in general? I could see if there is a liscense for keeping certain fish, maybe stripers, fluke, tautog,but only if you keep them, not just for fishing. Again, as long as the $ goes to preserving or protecting the fsih

[BigFish]

Oh!! And never mind the absolute lack of access from shore and we are losing more and more all the time! The powers that be want to raise more money through a license and the same "powers that be" do all they can to limit access!!! You pay big dollars to access the beaches on the Cape with your 4 x 4 and they spend most of the season keeping it closed because of the stupid plovers!!!

[Motor Fish]

Not for any more taxes. I just don't trust the politicians, especially in MA. I'm already buying fishing licenses in MA, RI & NH. Where does that money go?

So what I'm hearing is that I'll have to buy freshwater license AND a saltwater license? No way. If there is going to be a license required, it should be applicable to both salt and fresh water.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.

Flaps point about the Father and son wanting to wet a line and spend time together is just perfect! Say its sunset...6:00 pm......Dad and the boy want to do a little fishing before the sun goes down!!! "Sorry son...we can't.....we need a license and there is no place open right now to go get one....so I guess we can't!"

[chief10]

I'm against a saltwater license also. Anything Massachusetts politicians get a hold of they ruin for their own personal benefit. It's like inviting the Devil over for dinner. Then the animal rights activists will some how weasel their way in because of a loophole some tree hugging lawyer from cambridge found. The majority of people in Mass/RI don't stay up all night fishing from shore for stripers or skip work and fish all day from a boat. We are a minority group of people. We can't even take on the Bird watchers for christ sake.