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Old 12-27-2007, 09:08 AM   #1
RIROCKHOUND
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Why: Increased funds for enforcement, conservation, access etc.
Why not: It will go to the general fund and not help for any of the above.

I have no problem, even on my income scale of paying a few to fish, IF it helps out to the 'Why' above. I just don't want it to be 'another tax' to grease a state general fund.
(Must be slow at the course, huh Mike )

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Old 12-27-2007, 09:21 AM   #2
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Why not: It will go to the general fund and not help for any of the above.
Cool, lets start with that issue, because its a big one for everyone. Just so we don't inundate people here with too much info, one state in particular (NC I think) has a license revenue allocation breakout that mandates (legally) all license revenue be used soley for fisheries management. I think the G and A portion is about 8% of the revenue. The reference I'm using is "something's fishy" by Ted Williams, in case anyone has access to it or wants to quote some stuff here. There are well laid out arguments in favor of it and Williams takes a fairly objective position on it.

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Old 12-27-2007, 09:24 AM   #3
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Would gladly pay for it IF and only IF it would NOT go in the general fund. If the law stated that if 1 cent of the money was to be put into the general fund the license fee would be removed.

I believe that Mass has something similar where all license monies must be used for the fisheries budget.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:35 AM   #4
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Because of the new federal regulation we are going to get a license whether we like it or not. If we had a New England coast wide license than I would be much more willing to support it. The biggest difference up here as compared to the gulf states is it is much more common for people to fish in 3 to 5 states. Knowing that the states are always looking for ways to get more money, especially from people who aren't in their voting district. I'm afraid of what the non-resident fees might be.

What we should be fighting for is a reciprocal agreement between the Northeast states where they accept each others license or at least allow you to buy a resident license, in each state, if you hold a license from your home state.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:54 AM   #5
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What we should be fighting for is a reciprocal agreement between the Northeast states where they accept each others license or at least allow you to buy a resident license, in each state, if you hold a license from your home state.
A degree of reciprocity would be in order. I know they do it in a number of inland areas. Lots of people, particulary boaters, who launch in one state and fish another.

One of the other points to ponder is would you rather fish under federal or state mandate?
Remember there are some big,powerful, and well funded environmental lobbies at work. They frequently use the fed as a vehicle to further their agenda. Look at CCNS for example.
With the fed's impending actions it would make more sense to me that we get ahead of the curve and take the license in house on a local level=proactive.

Last edited by Back Beach; 12-27-2007 at 10:05 AM..

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Old 12-27-2007, 09:38 AM   #6
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My only reason for not wanting it is simple......nothing in this world is free anymore! Nothing! "Land of the Free"?????? Not anymore! The simplest thing in the world....fishing....should be free! The money never goes where its supposed to go...its just another ploy for the powers that be to have some more "play" money! There are other funds that go directly to support the fisheries such as the 10% Dingle Johnson tax that is paid on all items sold that are fishing related! That surely generates Millions of dollars! Just grabbing a rod and a can of worms and heading for open water can no longer be done......without it costing someone a ton of money in taxes!!!! Enough is enough in my opinion!!

Just say "NO" to a saltwater fishing license!!!!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:43 AM   #7
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IIRC, Rhode Island's state laws call for all funds to be only destined for the general ledger and it is illegal for this to be set aside for something else first. Sounds stooopid but it is Rhode Island Government At Work

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Old 12-27-2007, 10:32 AM   #8
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My only reason for not wanting it is simple......nothing in this world is free anymore! Nothing! "Land of the Free"?????? Not anymore! The simplest thing in the world....fishing....should be free! The money never goes where its supposed to go...its just another ploy for the powers that be to have some more "play" money! There are other funds that go directly to support the fisheries such as the 10% Dingle Johnson tax that is paid on all items sold that are fishing related! That surely generates Millions of dollars! Just grabbing a rod and a can of worms and heading for open water can no longer be done......without it costing someone a ton of money in taxes!!!! Enough is enough in my opinion!!

Just say "NO" to a saltwater fishing license!!!!
I'm with the big guy!!
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:49 AM   #9
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I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.

Why even try.........
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaptail View Post
I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.
Lots of good points Steve.
But, remember, there is already a license in place from Maryland south around through the gulf. Would be interested to hear if these issues presented themselves down there and how they were dealt with.
I'm not one for more EPO's either, but if the license revenues were to be directed by a collective voice, the potential impact is huge. Right now the recs are highly fragmented and unorganized in the northeast. A small, but organized group of commercial interests basically controls the bulk of our saltwater (MA) fishery now. Why? Because they are licensed, serve as a data source, and pay fees. Government knows who they are.
Right now nobody knows for sure who the recs are, how large their numbers, or what they really contribute(or take). The federal registry will be the first step in reversing this scenario. With the federal license a probable certainty within several years, I'm saying we get ahead of the curve and consider manging on a state/regional level before the feds(who cater to special interest $$ in many cases) do it for us.

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At the end of your line
It's the fishing hole
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaptail View Post
I don't know, I mean I grew up fishing and the saltwater element is the last free frontier. Will the funds generated go to the right causes?
Can it be enforced? Given the undermanned EPO force now in place will it stretch it too thin, more than that department is now?

Can we really license something where the resource is really a national one rather than inherent to the state as in the case of the Striped Bass?

Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have top pay to enjoy that memory? Most people, the overwhelming majority are casual or better yet occasional at best fishermen. The local shops rely heavily on that type of business to get by each season. The local pros are not the ones that sustain thier business. A license requirement would only impare thier ability to stay in business as opposed to the #^&#^&#^&#^&'s, Bass Pro, Cabela's and Wally world stores.

How would this benefit the stocks of fish we have left?

There are way too many negatives as opposed to positives.
Flaps point about the Father and son wanting to wet a line and spend time together is just perfect! Say its sunset...6:00 pm......Dad and the boy want to do a little fishing before the sun goes down!!! "Sorry son...we can't.....we need a license and there is no place open right now to go get one....so I guess we can't!"

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaptail View Post
Do we really need it? Take for example the guy who comes down to the Cape for one week a year and traditionally would spend one or two evenings casting for Bluefish at West Dennis Beach with his children or buy a box of seaworms and sit with his son on the jetty at Menahaunt for one morning of thier vacation.

Should a license be required so the two of them could spend a little time together just sitting and talking about things a Dad and his kid speak of when alone and just enjoying something a bit different than life back in the city and it really doesn't matter what they catch?

Should they have to pay to enjoy that memory?
Sadly, but truly, the answer is yes for several reasons................

The main conondrum facing our recreation/sport, as it moves forward, is what to do with the monies that licensing will produce? The fact that the feds won't stay out of this debate, and they will have their numbers ~one way or another~ alarms me more than just a little bit....................

That being said, if it truly is about finding out how many of us there are ~though we certainly suspect that it is much more than that, then why not put a box and a question on each IRS Form right next to the CREEP, Save a Tree, US Olympic Fund boxes that already litter those forms? I mean we ALL pay our taxes, right ???? Will such a method provide a national census of saltwater anglers? Yes.

Will it help with the vacationer's of Flaps above scenario? No.

For me to fish in FL, I must go to the local Bait shop/Wally world and purchase a non-resident rec license. It cost me $7.00 for three days access to ALL of Florida's salt last year!!! A mere pittance, imo! No snook stamp required, which I believe is still in the neighborhood of $25 anually for FL residents. I could have purchased a single day, seven day, etc. Not too much to pay and most reasonable considering the impact and pressure that non-resident anglers can apply to our local fisheries. Certain areas of FL get hammered by the "vacationing" fishing community just as hard as RI does; yet currently RI has no way to realize manageable impact dollars to help to off-set said impact. In my view this is what hurts the most.......................

People are going to impact the shoreline, the fishery, and the Bay/Ocean. The weekend warrior is responsible for pressuring our species and coasts in numerous ways, so I'll just take one of them, here. People are going to fish. People bring garbage with them ~stuff for them to feed their faces and "their" fishes with. And this is what damages our shores/oceans/fishery with stagerring frequence and detrimental consequence. We definitely need dollars for research and fisheries management and development related to fishing pressure from both ~resident and non-resident. So, let's use the 10% they already get. I am willing to pay between $5 and $15 to MA ~annually and reciprocally~ in order to help police and clean up our shores. A small non-res of NE fee (sorry NY'ers and beyond, but hey iffin ya have a beef with it, step up to the plate and move to NE ) should also be required to generate funds that could go to State Parks & Recreation budgets in the interests of shore access development/maintenance of both the old and some new facilities, alike. These funds must be, BY LAW, untouchable and allocated strictly and solely for the enforcement and enrichment of the Recreational Experience. Simply put, without whom the monies would not be there in the first place. Hell, I'd even purchase a yearly Resident Striper Stamp ($20) if I knew that the funds were being managed effectively. $10 to the fishery/conservation/public education side of the coin and $10 to enforcement/access/maintenance part of the equation.

Wouldn't it be nice to see 55 gallon trash barrels, or even a freakin' dumpster that gets regular service at say the East Wall, WHLT, CTown, The Q, or WKPG Bways? I removed so much garbage from all of those places it was sickening last year. At 3 of the 4 I had nowhere to put the garbage??? I ended up schlepping it in my feeshmobile to the nearest dumpster or barrel, that wasn't very close !! The Aves have trash barrels at least, and so aren't the beaches at Gansett and Scarbo set-up nicely. And this is why I think that we should beat the feds to the punch. Each state could collect a resaonable fee from their residents, reciprocate to the rest of NE, and go non-res license for everyone else, the key word being reasonable. Say, 3 bucks a day for the non-residents? This is some huge dollars, but AS LONG AS IT IS MANAGED PROPERLY, it could do us some real good.

As an example, FL has many State funded areas of access that are absolutely beautiful, well maintained and actually make one feel like much more than a third world citizen because one likes to fish. I am not saying that we'll get our Bass stands back (why not in your more general places?); but some of the State Parks in FL are well lit, provide ample parking, plenty of places to remove and place yer garbage (& heavy fines if you don't), places to leave a shat (and I doan mean porta-johns), boardwalks leading to the beach, playgrounds for kiddies, rinsing stations to remove sand and salt, and cafes even!!! Of course, none of the general public stuff would be available at night, but i cannot tell you how many times the porta-johns at singing beach have saved the night for this surfcaster .

While this is only one possible positive result of a regular stream of revenue, surely by our concentrated efforts and the resourceful minds of NE we could at least equal this level of results ~dependent upon effective leadership and smart supervision of such a revenue resource.

Just some ideas gentlemen, for as certain as BIG Eeeeeels brang tha BIG Gurls ~change is coming. So, why not effect the change ourselves on a local and regional level, restricting Big Brother to a tiny little box on the IRS forms and providing our own improvements designed to enhance the surfcasting experience? If done properly each state could dramatically effect the business and enjoyment of recreational fishing.

Are any of us even remotely pleased with the mountain of issues we see going unadressed each year along our magnificent stretch of The Striper Coast? More importantly, these issues will not improve/go away by themselves, as each one requires FUNDING. How else are we to generate these funds? A donations box at our parking lots? How's about a yearly car wash and paper drive to increase revenue?

I'm joking, of course, but I will gladly buy two less plugs, purchase two less rounds of eeeeeeeels, or pass on a coupla less pkgs of pogies to contribute to strictly targeted dinero. Consequently, if we see our licensing dollars at work, then won't we be more willing to comply and better able to pass our beloved sport and moonlit obsession on to our children and their children's children? One concern nags at me, though, does better access lead to undue pressure to our species and a possible return to the 80's?

Last edited by BassDawg; 12-31-2007 at 02:59 PM..

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Old 12-30-2007, 10:29 AM   #13
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Where will the money go?

I was interviewed by a rep of the DEC ( the usual questions i.e. catch, time, frequency of trips, how much spent per trip) When I asked about a SW lic they said Maine was not willing to impose one in 2008 so the Feds will in 2009. I have no other verification of this.

If its a Fed thing will they also control the process of those states in compliance now?? Would it be like the duck stamp?? a fed stamp and individual state stamps??? I've bought FW lics for the last 40 years and I see where the money goes (hatcheries and stocking programs).

In MaineI have been checked 3 times in 16 years by wardens during duck season and 3 during 20 fishing seasons. How well will this process be inforced. Every member of this site will buy SW lic if required but I think we would like to see it inforced. There is not enough enforcement of the existing bag limits now will my-your 20$ make it any better?? I don't think so.
Will the money go to SW hatcheries and release programs??? The Atlantic Salmon Fish-farming in Maine has suffered because of the possibility of introducing diseses .What about the commercial guys???
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