Lawn Care Advice

[Slingah]

To all you greenthumbs out there...I am looking for some advice on getting my lawn heathy with minimal work. It is not all that bad just needs a bit of help.
Should I check pH, then lime?? What about fertilizer and seeding bare spots?? Should I reseed?? ( I am ignorant to lawncare)
I do not want to dig up the lawn and start over...I'm just looking to make it a bit thicker and greener...
Thanks in advance

[Saltheart]

this year i am going back to Turfbuilder products by Scotts. there are cheaper alternatives but for years , 4 applications at $30 to $45 each 9depending on if there are weed controls added , etc) and the lawn looks great. i will also be liming my lawn this year as its been a while and soil in this artea tends to go acid with time.

scratching bare spots and reseeding speeds things up but if the lawn is healthy and the weeds controlled , the good grass will eventually fill in the bare spots. i think the only areas that really need scratching and seeding are the areas with moss growing.

Goose has a green thumb , maybe he can chime in .

[fishsmith]

Scotts does make the lawn look great quick, but my experience was the grass degraded at an accelerated rate when I stopped using their product.

I wonder if Scotts works faster because their fertilizer is 'finer' than the pebble sized fertilizer you find in other products like Lecso.

I lost the nice lawn battle, but have learned to love the color brown and aquired a taste for dust when I mow.

[Saltheart]

I tried two different chemlawn type companies. They made a big improvement the first year , great lawn the second , on the wane the third and worse than when started the 4 th. I'm going back to Scotts. That worked great for about 30 years. I don't know why they work well. they just do.

[nautibuoys]

I had same experience as Saltheart and went back to Scott's a couple years ago. Never looked back. Was told you should check Ph, but if you don't or can't, spreading lime will likely help and definitley won't hurt (i.e., remember-acid rain).

[Saltheart]

Before I got my ride around mower i considered blacktop. large upfront expense but the week to week maintenance goes way down!

[american spirit]

i'd put some thought into the lasco (spelling?) products. they are cheaper than scott's and that's what all the golf courses are starting to use now. a relative used it last year with good results. i think scott's has a really big name and it's tough to get a lot of people to try new things.

as far as re-seeding or fixing bare spots, early spring or fall should be the go time for that. good soil is important. other than that i don't know how to test it or fix it. besides calling a company to dump 10-20 yard of fresh loom on your property.

[zimmy]

You can get a cheap test for your soil to see if you need lime or take a sample to a county extension office. Get an organic fertilizer which releases nutrients over time as opposed to most chem types. (also causes less salt build up in the soil than the chem types ) Spread it as directed (usually spring and fall.) Get a bag of milky spore and spread it two years in a row for grubs (could be why you have bare spots). You also might try nematodes this season as they will immediately kill this years grubs. You might get 2 or 3 years where you don't have to do anything for grubs after you get those things established. Keep the grass about 3" long to out compete the weeds. If the bare spots are pretty big, you might till them and add a layer of compost and re-seed. Do these things and you will have a nice healthy lawn that is safe for you, pets, kids and anything else that goes in it. One of the main problems in our waterways and estuaries is lawn chemicals, so if you can live with a nice yard that has some clover and stuff mixed with the grass it is worth it. Also, if you have enough compost, you can spread a thin layer over the grass and not need any other fertilizer. Less fertilizers = more fluke

[justplugit]

Matt, aside from agreeing with Karl, try the following. Rent an overseeder slicer. It will slice the soil and drop the seed so it comes in contact with the soil which is necessary for germination.

Only Scotts products i use are their seed as they have good mixes for sun or shade, have a high germination rate and very low weed content.

Find a %50 organic or %50 WIN fert a 2-1-1 ratio, it will tell you on the bag. example 16-8-8 or 20-10-10 or even 10-6-4 which is close. Agway has excellent ferts.

After you seed,apply #40 pelitized lime 2500 sg ft. and fertilize at full rate on bag.

If you don't like cutting use the same fert at 1/2 the rate Memorial Day - Fourth of July and Labor Day which will keep it green and thick. Next year around St Patricks day start your fertilizer program.

Fertilzing at any other time will just increase the growth of crabgrass and broadleaf weeds. Spot kill the weeds with a sprayer in mid June after your seed has had a chance to germinate and has been cut at least 3 times.

Get a broadcast fertilizer spreader it will make things real easy.


Don't overwater= fungus.

[Mr. Sandman]

Scotts 4 step is the way to go. Supplement for problems as needed (grubs, insects fungus etc)Use their speedy green spreader too.

Organics are expensive, don't work most of the time and you have to put a TON of it on your lawn.


PS the 4 step is on sale now too..

[Raven]

i have never bought a Scott's lawn product ever! nor will i .

why ? because, yeah you can throw it in an easy spreader and roll that around your lawn.... but what your doing is encouraging shallow roots for your grass plants... and they're getting their intravenous fertilizer fix right on the surface plus that chemical fertilizer is screwing up the ecosystem big time with run off and killing off all the earthworms.

They are your natural composters that aerate (with their burrows) the lawn which allows for quick drainage when it pours cats and dogs getting that much needed rain water down to the deeper root zone and increasing organic matter in your lawn's soil.

~ (btw:wood ashes do the same thing as lime so use it instead of lime....) it's just not as strong....

what you want to do is to encourage root growth and your earthworm population simultaneously!

when your source of maple leaves
(never use oak as they have a root inhibitor (tanic acid) built right into them)
or any other non oak leaf pile that is fairly dry, you make long wind rows of them across your lawn and run them over with your lawn mower
shredding them into confetti or worm food.

[Rule of green thumb]:
feed your worms and let them feed your lawn]

the shredded leaves you spread around to bare spots (sprinkle with grass seed first) and this encourages worms to make a burrow nearby and then drag the leaf pieces each night directly into the ground increasing the organic matter into your lawn.

NOTE: organic matter or "humus" holds ten times it's weight in water...and Scott's fertilizer can't ever do that.

the other thing is to let your grass stay a little longer than usual by about an inch to help shade the ground thus conserving moisture and smothering out the weeds.

you can always cut it shorter when company is coming... but i never "ever" cut my grass "unless" it's just about to rain....and as your just finishing mowing..... it should be sprinkling rain already.

I almost sharpen my mower blade every other time i cut too , so each individual blade of grass is cut and not whacked which cuts down on grass mortality and dehydration.

lastly , if you print out my fishing calender and cut your lawn on the days marked just before it rains preferably before the full moon it will encourage growth big time...where as if your grass is growing like way to fast !!cut it on the days that are not marked to decrease growth ............so you'll have more time to fish.

btw: if you frequently see yellow shafted flickers on your lawn
probing it for bugs...you have grubs as its easier for them to get a meal there than banging on a tree... so , then you should first treat your lawn for grubs before starting your organic lawn care.

a truly healthy lawn should have night crawlers leaving earthworm casting piles of excreted organic matter on the lawn each evening.

they have the unique ability to alter the soils ph back to neutral 7.0
in this way. NATURE NEVER USES LIME

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Karl F

pour a 50/50 mix of bleach and gasoline on it, and then you will not have to touch it again all season, way more time to fish....

at least thats what bassmaster told me once... wish I could take his advise....

.

Or, tear it all up and put Astroturf down.

[Fishpart]

Originally Posted by Raven

ibtw: if you frequently see yellow shafted flickers on your lawn
probing it for bugs...you have grubs as its easier for them to get a meal there than banging on a tree... so , then you should first treat your lawn for grubs before starting your organic lawn care.

So what is the best way to eradicate the grubs??? I have a flicker colony going on..

[Raven]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Matt, aside from agreeing with Karl, try the following. Rent an overseeder slicer. It will slice the soil and drop the seed so it comes in contact with the soil which is necessary for germination.

Only Scotts products i use are their seed as they have good mixes for sun or shade, have a high germination rate and very low weed content.



Get a broadcast fertilizer spreader it will make things real easy.


Don't overwater= fungus.

==========================================
In the old days ...everyone had a water filled or solid concrete
roller in their backyard or had a deal to work out a share program with a neighbor.... this was so they literally pressed the grass seed into the soil making sure it had firm contact with the soil which encourages germination... (extremely important)

now a days people spread it with a spreader and water it to death without hardly even scratching it in... or they cover it with hay...

and the hydroseed companies have a much higher germination rate because their grass seed is pre germinated in their tanks and its sprayed down with a green moisture holding substance too.

the coolest thing i ever saw while working on golf courses was the finger hole maker which had a bank of tubes jamming them into the turf then popping out the plugs which you had to rake up and deposit elsewhere. Then you had a grass surface with thousands of finger sized holes , so we'd spread compost on top and lightly rake that back into the holes to increase the organic matter instantly.

Exactly what worms do..........

the funny thing or SAD thing was.... they had special chemicals to kill all the earth worms because a big old worm casting ball on the surface would stop or deflect a golf ball and that was a NO NO.

[Slingah]

wow..alot of good stuff here..I am looking for the semi-easy way out....probaly go the Scotts route..
Squirrels have dug up the back yard pretty good the past couple of days??? are they eating grubs???

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

So what is the best way to eradicate the grubs??? I have a flicker colony going on..

other than rototilling to expose them to the birds you'll have to either use chemicals that target the grubs specifically or look for an organic grub killer...if there is such a thing. moles and shrews eat worms and grubs... typically keeping them in balance....

those grubs eat grass roots so they'll kill the lawn every time...
the grubs are there because Nature is out of balance in that lawn.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Slingah

wow..alot of good stuff here..I am looking for the semi-easy way out....probaly go the Scotts route..
Squirrels have dug up the back yard pretty good the past couple of days??? are they eating grubs???

more than likely they're eating seeds or acorns buried by themselves
last fall or burried there by other squirrels who died or forgot where they burried them. If they are eating the grubs i'd be surprised.

[Mr. Sandman]

Organic yards require much more in the way of materials (and work) and you will generally constantly be fighting weeds for the rest of your life. My good friend has a fully organic farm...talk about a weed (and bug) problem. Most "green" yards are loaded with weeds and when you ask the owners about them, they "just accept them". I have only seen a few really nice lawns that were organic and they were the exception, most look like %$%$%$%$.

As far as shallow root growth and run off these are the classic environmental excuses used to not fertilize your lawn. Grass is a rhizome...they HAVE SHALLOW ROOTS, its not a tree. Besides, the fertilizers today are a lot different then 20 years ago and they dissolve slowly over a period of weeks feeding the roots, the same way rainwater gets down there. I don't believe the shallow feed theory any more. And as far as run off and the eco damage it causes, I grant you if you dump a bag of scotts into a salt pond it is NOT good, but for most houses that don't have a run off issue directly into waterways, it is not a problem. It is spread out over such a large area and dissolves slowly. Most of the chemicals get fully absorbed by the foliage unless you have several inches of rain right after you put it down which would wash everything away, green or chem.

EVERY recent water test I have seen of salt ponds DIRECTLY points to Bird (and sometimes animal)Fecal Matter as the source for water nitrogen and not lawn firt. But try and have the birds removed from the ponds and you have the Feds on your back. the wackos come out and say it is the lawn fertilizers, sewers, housing to close to water...but when we have it fully tested and it is birds and you want the removed ASAP, they revolt! I know there are towns that had septic and run off issues but most of the major polluting problems are or have been resolved. In recent years the major nitrogen producer in ponds are geese and other waterfowl (IE cormorants)

I am using the chemicals...so I have time to fish.

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.

How do you plan to get rid of insects? OK Milky Spore works well on grubs but it take several YEARS to get it going before it is effective. Put a bag of grub killer and and your done baby and your fishing that afternoon.


If you want to spend less, and have a much better looking lawn, go with the chemicals!! If you don't want to do it, have someone else do it.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Or, tear it all up and put Astroturf down.

Mike P :thats exactly what they are doing in California because of a lack of water... or they leave the turf and spray paint it green.

[Raven]

this is the first spring that i'll have the chance to work on it.

the first thing i'll do is to roto till it all in and start over because it's
half brown and half green...mostly dead...

then i'll rake it out ,seed it ,and roll it........

i don't believe in mono cultures and will have some clover seed
added in ..... as i like clover better than grass...

i don't spend much money on things other than compost or seed.

some area's i'll kill the grass and have just English IVY...instead
for extremely low maintenance.

[Goose]

Raven, you always amaze me with all that you know. Question: Have you ever paid for anything?lol
Slinga, tons of good advice. If you think you may have grubs you should treat them first or else all the time and $ will mean nothing. Go to where the brown(dead grass) meets the green grass, take a spade or shovel and lift the green grass, do this in 2-3 different spots....this is where you'll find'um, not in the dead spots.

Pick a day the ground is dry
cut the lawn a little lower
rake out all the dead grass/debree or rent a thatcher
add choice of lime & fertizer
(more fertizer is not good)

If you'd rather not fertize..you can spread compost by throwing it with a shovel in a wide motion.
If you don't have a compost pile you should start one. You can make it out of wood or buy a plastic one or just pile it.
Makes excellent soil for pots, planters, garden beds, spread on grass. Plus, no dump runs and a lot of kitchen scrap's get throw in too.

[Goose]

Raven, Question #2: do you have a job? You don't have to answer that.

[EricW]

I use cock a doodle doo. It is pelleted chicken manure. Works wonders. Just put it in the rotary spreader and spread it around. They also make a pre emergent weed treatment made from corn gluten. It greens up the lawn and inhibits seeds from sprouting. My grass is thicker and greener than my neighbors who use those lawn services. I can't beleive the guys I see working for those services, they pull out bags of fertilizer with no gloves, no eye protection, no mask, they tear open bags, make dust fly everywhere, spill it all over. Granted the stuff isn't nuclear waste, but I wouldn't want to be handling that everyday with out any skin protection.

I put the corn gluten down in late march, early april a couple times and then the chicken manure once a month If I can get to it.

Chicken manure works wonders on everything I have ever put it on. I get beautiful tomatoes, cukes, squash, berries etc and flowers. I got some compost made from a chicken farm once and put some on my veg beds. I had 14 ft tomato plants that year. I have a pic which I will try to find I took in mid july that year when they were about 8 feet tall. I had more tomatoes than I knew what to do with I gave shopping bags full to everyone I knew.

There is a company called gardens alive you can google. They make some great organic stuff. I have used thier veg foods and some mildew and insect control stuff. They sell lawn products too.

Happy gardening, I would love to look at my lawn ,but it is under a new 2" of snow here nw of boston. 2 years ago I was putting grass seed down the last weekend of march......

I got to thinking recently about that story about the drugs people are excreting out going through the sewer systems and back into the drinking water supply. If that tiny amount is showing up in water, how much chemical is getting in from the groundwater since people liberally spread all matter of chemicals by the bagful on lawns.

[Raider Ronnie]

Hot top it, paint it green and go fishing ALL summer.

[BigFish]

I am with Karl! I like my grass short, brown and burned by mid June......no mowing....its fishing I am going!

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.

I agree, however when it comes to fertilizer an organic based N will be released slowly, especially in the spring when the soil temp is below 60deg as that is the temp needed for the microorganisms to break it down and make it available to the roots.

By using a %50 organic, the other %50 chemical will be released by water, not temp related, and green up your lawn early until the organic takes over.

Advantage, no quick lush growth from using a %25-%100 chemical fert that requires extra cutting and a faster growing grass which makes it more vulnerable to disease.

[Raven]

and chemical fertilizers are made from petroleum Chicken crap is great but its real high in nitrogen and tends to burn plants sometimes
where as rabbit is the coldest and won't burn anything.

goose i really try .....and have to be extremely careful now as to what i spend our money on.

today we paid for credit cards, excise taxes,car registration, dog license , food and more garden seeds that were 50% off... gasoline ...a new car jack so i can fix my car myself... and very little cash is left over for spending it on luxuries like chemical lawn fertilizer... thats easy to spread ....

i always go for fish emulsion anyway because it's organic... last time i checked it was $270 dollars for a 50 gallon drum.

So i have do everything the "do it your selfer way" with the least outlay of cash out of the "mortgage money" which usually involves heavy labor on my part rather than to pay someone else to do it for me.

As for a JOB i am still looking for my Niche Goose. Basically i am just a market gardener/farmer and jack of all trades but my farm just takes all of my time....So in the mean time i'm changing it back to the efficient way it used to be between 1850 and 1950 before they let it get all clogged up
with non productive ornamentals. i have ten years of work ahead of me at least. At that point i'll be 65....

it's my Job to make this place PAY for itself essentially/Eventually.

The other thing i do is to find every way possible to save money by not having to spend it.... like cutting wood instead of buying heating oil i do on a daily basis rather than turn a thermostat dial.

[OffTheHook13]

Pave the whole thing.

[Raven]

go to california

because over there they already did...

[Goose]

The simple way is usually the better way to live. You take all you can from your resources, after all thats what its there for. Work only makes you healthy and you save$ to boot.

Imo...everyone who has a yard should have a garden. Not only does it put fresh food on the table but the time spent working on it is carefree time that clear the head,, it like fishing in some ways. The more you partake in it the more you realize the earth doesn't need you....you need the earth. The more you realize this truth the more respect you have for life.