Lawn Care Advice

[Mr. Sandman]

Organic yards require much more in the way of materials (and work) and you will generally constantly be fighting weeds for the rest of your life. My good friend has a fully organic farm...talk about a weed (and bug) problem. Most "green" yards are loaded with weeds and when you ask the owners about them, they "just accept them". I have only seen a few really nice lawns that were organic and they were the exception, most look like %$%$%$%$.

As far as shallow root growth and run off these are the classic environmental excuses used to not fertilize your lawn. Grass is a rhizome...they HAVE SHALLOW ROOTS, its not a tree. Besides, the fertilizers today are a lot different then 20 years ago and they dissolve slowly over a period of weeks feeding the roots, the same way rainwater gets down there. I don't believe the shallow feed theory any more. And as far as run off and the eco damage it causes, I grant you if you dump a bag of scotts into a salt pond it is NOT good, but for most houses that don't have a run off issue directly into waterways, it is not a problem. It is spread out over such a large area and dissolves slowly. Most of the chemicals get fully absorbed by the foliage unless you have several inches of rain right after you put it down which would wash everything away, green or chem.

EVERY recent water test I have seen of salt ponds DIRECTLY points to Bird (and sometimes animal)Fecal Matter as the source for water nitrogen and not lawn firt. But try and have the birds removed from the ponds and you have the Feds on your back. the wackos come out and say it is the lawn fertilizers, sewers, housing to close to water...but when we have it fully tested and it is birds and you want the removed ASAP, they revolt! I know there are towns that had septic and run off issues but most of the major polluting problems are or have been resolved. In recent years the major nitrogen producer in ponds are geese and other waterfowl (IE cormorants)

I am using the chemicals...so I have time to fish.

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.

How do you plan to get rid of insects? OK Milky Spore works well on grubs but it take several YEARS to get it going before it is effective. Put a bag of grub killer and and your done baby and your fishing that afternoon.


If you want to spend less, and have a much better looking lawn, go with the chemicals!! If you don't want to do it, have someone else do it.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.

I agree, however when it comes to fertilizer an organic based N will be released slowly, especially in the spring when the soil temp is below 60deg as that is the temp needed for the microorganisms to break it down and make it available to the roots.

By using a %50 organic, the other %50 chemical will be released by water, not temp related, and green up your lawn early until the organic takes over.

Advantage, no quick lush growth from using a %25-%100 chemical fert that requires extra cutting and a faster growing grass which makes it more vulnerable to disease.

[OffTheHook13]

Pave the whole thing.

[Raven]

go to california

because over there they already did...

[MarshCappa]

This thread inspired me to Lime today. Next is the Scotts and that's about it till it's time to cut. I keep it simple and I get a decent lawn. I have moss in spots but the spectic tank and leeching field do a great job keeping the majority of the back yard green! My Dad calls it Septi Lawn.

[tattoobob]

I just signed up for tru-green chemlawn

I have a really tough time with crab grass the last 3 years and nothing I do is working it just gets worse.

They promised me it would go away or they would do it for free

the cost of them doing there service is less than I can buy the Scotts system 4

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

I just signed up for tru-green chemlawn

I have a really tough time with crab grass the last 3 years and nothing I do is working it just gets worse.

They promised me it would go away or they would do it for free

the cost of them doing there service is less than I can buy the Scotts system 4

Do you have a dog or kids that use your yard or house? My wife is a vet and one thing they look at in veterinary medicine is something about \a significant correlation between the chemicals they use in chem lawn type companies and some sort of carcinoma or other cancer (not sure) in dogs. Also have read studies that the residues from chemlawn can be found in carpets for up to 6 years after use is stopped. They have also found substantial amounts on toys and other kids things inside homes.


...as far as organics don't work that is fundamentally not true. Yeah they don't work if you want your lawn to look like astroturf. You would have to allow for some dandelions and clover and other things that bees and stuff require. Once you do chemicals everything in the soil is dead and you only have non-native single species of grass. The thread started with advice for a "healthy lawn." Chemically induced grass only yard that dies as soon as the yearly chemical applications stop aren't really healthy by any definition in my very humble opinion

[Raven]

you are a very Wize man...

and that was very well spoken...


most chemicals used for fertilizers
are made from petroleum products

and all these chem lawn companies could give
a rats ass about the environment

i read not to many years ago about a guy that went walking barefoot
over his most gorgeous in the neighborhood lawn
and then became a total vegetable having to be spoon fed
in an institution like a baby....essentially...life over...

they are as bad as the tobacco industry if not worse

soil is not comprised of just this brown stuff thats dead
to begin with.... theres thousands of micro organisms
in there all working 24 hours a day...

just like drinking water....it's not pure H2o it's got
all kinds of life forms in it.... it's more alive than inert..

everyone is trying to make their yards into this
award winning homes and gardens magazine cover
and soon they are are addicted to using all this crap
and it smells and is all over the garage...bottles of this
boxes of that....gooey sticky..yucky...
it drives me insane...to see all that waste of money

when i walk thru home depot or lowes to get some hardware
or maybe a piece of plywood... i walk by all that crap...
always have and always will..

i used to buy bird seed for the outdoor birds at walmart
on occasion...then they relocated it all next to the malithion
and all these other NASTY chemicals and i said NO F-ing way
do i want to have to smell those fumes and breath it in.......

-just to go get birdseed

so i complained to management
they didnt give a damn so i no longer shop there except
for an occasional quart of oil or brake fluid maybe

we are all walking bags of chemicals...

especially those manufactured in our brains... which are electro-chemical in nature

each subsequent generation has become ever so much more
intolerant to the levels of pollution or sensative or allergic
to the over abundance of chemicals used for everything now

those all end up either in the atmosphere and then get rained back
down on us or the get into the soil or the water...

and eventually: will affect our lives one way or another

[tattoobob]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Do you have a dog or kids that use your yard or house? My wife is a vet and one thing they look at in veterinary medicine is something about \a significant correlation between the chemicals they use in chem lawn type companies and some sort of carcinoma or other cancer (not sure) in dogs. Also have read studies that the residues from chemlawn can be found in carpets for up to 6 years after use is stopped. They have also found substantial amounts on toys and other kids things inside homes.

No kids or Dogs, I have had second thoughts but I am going thru with it for this season anyways

[tattoobob]

I have to buy System 4 twice because my yard is so big, that would be 300 bucks, plus all the time I spend spreading it, pulling up weeds, and crabgrass. it is 8 applications at 10 for the first and 35 each after that. comes to 255, next year it will be 280

I told him I will try it for a year if it doesn't improve I will try Lesco products, but I think thats what they use

[rockfisherman]

There's been some discussion on using Milky Spore to control grubs, so here's WIKI:

After researching this on the web, the consensus of the extension programs is that Milky Spore controls Japanese Beetle grubs only. Various vendor websites claim that it controls the other grub species as well, but I have not found cooperative extension research that confirms this.

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/WhiteGrubs.htm

In my little corner of South County, RI, 90 % of the grubs are Oriental Beetle. Maybe 4 % are Asiatic Beetle, and 4 % are Japanese Beetle, and 2 % covers the rest.

I'd like to try Milky Spore to control the Oriental Beetles, but I can't find any scientific research to back it up. If someone knows of a scientific study of Milky Spore and Oriental Beetles, I would like to hear about it.

[tattoobob]

Yeah I would never pay that much, I don't even mulch every year, I just turn it over. if it wasn't under 300 I wouldn't even think of it.