Army shoots live pigs for medical drill

[MAC]

Originally Posted by spence

So we shouldn't either? Every time I hear rhetoric like this it makes me think they might be winning.

By that measure we should have just used the GITMO detainees for medical training.

-spence

Now there is an idea.

Don't think for a minute that they wouldn't do it to us if they had any formal training programs. (medical wise)

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

Now there is an idea.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you" - Nietzsche

Seems to be popular in ridiculous arguments like this.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by MAC

Now there is an idea.

Don't think for a minute that they wouldn't do it to us if they had any formal training programs. (medical wise)

And thats why we should strive not to be barbarians, but civil.

[wheresmy50]

I'm guessing Spence doesn't hunt much.

Are we still talking about pigs?

Who here has ever slit a deer's throat to finish it off, or wrung a turkey's neck, squished a squirrel's head? You're all outdoorsmen who take game - killers on some level.

[TommyTuna]

The US Army in ammunition testing once used human cadavers while testing the 45ACP -mostly deceased convicts who signed their bodies over to science. So a few pigs for medical purposes sounds reasonable -I hope they follow it (training) with a stint at an inner city ER for practical application.

[Raven]

that we are also using pigs to grow spare body parts
to replace human organs with pig grown implants.

not to mention growing a human ear on the back of a mouse.

[ThrowingTimber]

Originally Posted by spence

So we shouldn't either? Every time I hear rhetoric like this it makes me think they might be winning.

By that measure we should have just used the GITMO detainees for medical training.

-spence

The life it can be called that of a swine is waaaaaaay down on the totum pole compared to that of a human being. Anyone can see that

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you" - Nietzsche

Seems to be popular in ridiculous arguments like this.

If I remember right. That means "work will set you free". Or something to that extent. I spent 15 months in Germany and befriended some of the locals. Very nice people. The older ones liked the GI's.


The idea of humanely putting down the pigs is against reasoning. The goats or pigs are subjected to the extreme that they would surely die quickly if not for the medics attention.

I don't remember if the medic had to watch the setting up of the test (stabbing,burning,shooting) or if they were called in after it was complete. Like a call for a medic on a battlefield.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

If I remember right. That means "work will set you free". Or something to that extent. I spent 15 months in Germany and befriended some of the locals. Very nice people. The older ones liked the GI's.

Work Makes Free.
Gate from your typical concentration camp like where Mengele liked to work! He'd be in agreement with you about using gitmo prisoners.

[BW from AZ]

"....Most slaughterhouses have been designed and are now regulated to minimize the suffering of the animal, and we have animal cruelty laws to keep people from causing suffering to animals in other ways....Meat packing is very scientific these days, less suffering = better product.-Spence" Taken from two posts.

"the exercise is conducted in a controlled environment with the pigs anesthetized the entire time" Taken from the MSNBC article.

So as i see it the little piggy quietly goes to sleep and knows nothing of whats going on. Better than his brethren get at the laughterhouses.

Way better than what a striped bass gets, pulled out of the water to slowly die of suffocation with an occasional flop laying on the deck or beach.
But hey, we are civilized and would never do that right. Or is that different?

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

Work Makes Free.
Gate from your typical concentration camp like where Mengele liked to work! He'd be in agreement with you about using gitmo prisoners.

I guess I should have put one of these after my previous post. As it was meant to be read with a bit of sarcasm.

[Nebe]

If 19 thousand pigs have to die to save the life of one of our service men, I am all about it. I dont mind if my bacon has a few holes in it..

This is a no-brainer.

Spence it is rare when we disagree on moral's..

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by likwid

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you" - Nietzsche

Seems to be popular in ridiculous arguments like this.

Likwid I loved that quote. Read that book and others. That is probably the most profound words he wrote of all his teachings.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

I guess I should have put one of these after my previous post. As it was meant to be read with a bit of sarcasm.

Probably.

The other place gets to you man.... Just ask fishpoopoo

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

Probably.

The other place gets to you man.... Just ask fishpoopoo

I know. Especially if guns are brought up.

[Swimmer]

Imagine being in a convoy and an IED blows up the first vehicle. Everyone starts screaming medic, or corpman. Some kid comes rushing up to the injured and hits the ground flying opening up his bags. Other guys are applying direct pressure to the wounds, and this poor kid has to start an IV line somewhere on the injured soldier, but his arms and legs are blow off. Imagine trying to find a vein to start fluids under those conditions. Well the injured soldier lived because first of all the medic/corpman used all the weapons he carried and what he was taught to save a life under the most trying circumstances. Only because of the medic/corpmans training do so many soldiers who are so severely wounded make it home. Imagine having to treat three, four, five, or six soldiers at once. Establishing airways in crushed tracheas, holding arteries closed with your fingers until someone finds the medic a hemostat to use. Guts and determination, first, and if they need pigs to learn the rest, I'll help buy them all the pigs they need.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Imagine being in a convoy and an IED blows up the first vehicle. Everyone starts screaming medic, or corpman. Some kid comes rushing up to the injured and hits the ground flying opening up his bags. Other guys are applying direct pressure to the wounds, and this poor kid has to start an IV line somewhere on the injured soldier, but his arms and legs are blow off. Imagine trying to find a vein to start fluids under those conditions. Well the injured soldier lived because first of all the medic/corpman used all the weapons he carried and what he was taught to save a life under the most trying circumstances. Only because of the medic/corpmans training do so many soldiers who are so severely wounded make it home. Imagine having to treat three, four, five, or six soldiers at once. Establishing airways in crushed tracheas, holding arteries closed with your fingers until someone finds the medic a hemostat to use. Guts and determination, first, and if they need pigs to learn the rest, I'll help buy them all the pigs they need.

Amen to that.

[Raven]

not only did you hit the nail squarely on the head

but you sank it in one blow. Very well said ...

[Flaptail]

"Okay men, were gonna shoot the pigs in various places on thier bodies to simulate field wounds you might encounter"

'Sgt. Smith you may commence firing" "Yes Sir"

bang bang bang!!! Oink squeal squeal

Sir exercise is finished, three pigs did not make it though the medics did all they could but the other 7 will be alright, the men did a fine job and this will make our people in the field have a better chance to survive if hit"

"Very Good Sgt. Smith you may dismiss the men from the exercise after debriefing" Oh, and by the way, what was the dispostion of the pigs that didn't make it"?

"OH, ah yes sir, they are being sent to your compound for the battalion LUAU just as you ordered, all head shots just as you asked"!

"Very well Sgt. Smith, carry on, this is Hawaii you know, must not break tradition"

"Yes sir will do"

[Jenn]

It is so easy for people to say this is a bad, cruel thing. Hands on experience is key to learning most things in our lives. It's how we DO.
I dont like to see any living thing suffer but sometimes its a necessary thing. I wouldnt want someone operating on me that had only SEEN it happen and never actually done it....nor would any of you and neither should out troops!


If you think that a pig DYING this way is so bad than you have no idea how they LIVE. I am not talking local "Joe Farmers" pigs I am talking the large farms most of our food comes from.