Some good fish South..

[piemma]

It is not the killing of big fish that is hurting the stocks. As Ken pointed out, they are past the prime breeding time. It is the 2, 28" fish that is killing the stocks. Day in and day out.

The 32 to 38" fish are the prime breeders. All the big fish have past the time of carrying viable eggs and in fact most of the eggs the females of that size, 40 to 50#, carry are sterile.

Let's stop this bitchin' about killing big fish. There are enough guys on this board that kill 30 to 40" fish every night that shouldn't be casting stones. Put back the mid size fish and let them become elderly. Why do you think there are not 50s caught everyday. Because some jamoke took home 2, 28" fish 10 times this year so he could be a DUDE and brag to his neighbors.

I get a a real kick out of some of the people who release 2 or 3 fish and think they are conservationist.

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by piemma

...All the big fish have past the time of carrying viable eggs....

I've been searching for info on this and can't find anything. Where did you learn this?

I agree that it's the constant killing of 30"-40" fish that is the issue. I have to scratch my head when I see all these guys who fish hard and frequently constantly taking fish. Just b/c the law says it's OK doesn't mean it's the most responsible thing to do.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by piemma

All the big fish have past the time of carrying viable eggs and in fact most of the eggs the females of that size, 40 to 50#, carry are sterile.

Can you link to literature that supports this statement? I would like to read it. Thanks


Redlite- Cute sister... and she can party

[piemma]

[QUOTE=zimmy;808665]Can you link to literature that supports this statement? I would like to read it. Thanks

Zimmy and Woody, I will try to find the article. I read it a few years ago but I also have heard theories that contradict my statement.
But it does make sense when you think about it.

What species, including humans, have females that are fertile at the end of their life cycle? None. No women 70 or 80 years old getting pregnant. No dogs, cats, elephants, lions or tigers or apes or bears nearing the end of their years are having babies.

It would make no common sense that Stripers would be the lone anomoly on this entire planet that allowed the female of the species to remain highly fertile at the end of their life.

[numbskull]

Piemma, you are wrong, and you are too smart a man and too good a fisherman to pass on such error.

Fish are not mammals.
Their fecundity increases with size/age. Here is an article on sea bass (there are similar studies on striped bass) Maturity, ovarian cycle, fecundity, and age-specific parturition of black rockfish | Fishery Bulletin | Find Articles at BNET . It only takes a moment to read the abstract and learn something.

Large bass breed at a different time of the spring than smaller bass, which increases the odds of a successful breeding year (since spawning success is in part weather dependent).

Genetic studies suggest that many good year classes are actually the result of a small number (a few hundred) fish that happened to hit it right. Wipe out a single pre-spawning school of fish and we may wipe out an entire year class.

If, like cowhunter, you want to legally kill large striped bass for whatever reason, go right ahead...it is your own business and, under current law, your right.

It is, however, long past time to drop the rationalization about large fish not being important breeders. It is a delusion people use to fool themselves that they are not hurting the fishery AND OTHER FISHERMEN when they kill these fish.

Fishing legally is not the same as fishing responsibly.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

Genetic studies suggest that many good year classes are actually the result of a small number (a few hundred) fish that happened to hit it right. Wipe out a single pre-spawning school of fish and we may wipe out an entire year class. George, i know for a fact that this happens with clams.have seen many areas were there are a few chowders and cherries and in following years the same areas are paved with clams.though this hasn't happened very often in recent years.that statement also makes me wonder why people think that taking less fish will do anything to help the stocks.my focus would be on why aren't the fish we have aren't reproducing at a greater rate.is it because we are killing the big fish or envoirmental factors.

[zimmy]

[QUOTE=piemma;808693]

Originally Posted by zimmy

It would make no common sense that Stripers would be the lone anomoly on this entire planet that allowed the female of the species to remain highly fertile at the end of their life.

Eels and Salmon to start. Eels are beleived to breed into their 30's.

[intrepid24]

It seems weird to chastise cowhunter for keeping large fish, because many folks here are involved in the stiper cup, including myself. If any 50 lb fish was to be caught during the cup, it is most surely going to die.
Throwing stones seems slightly hypocritical, imho.
Are we any less responsible when we kill large fish for our own clubs ?

[sokinwet]

Way to go Kenny and congrat's to the young lady angler and dad!!

[Sea Dangles]

People generally dislike winners.Yankees,Celtics,Patriots etc.Kenny has proven year after year he is capable of catching and killing large fish and relishes putting it in your face.I have a feeling this need will diminish with maturity.The guy who taught me the most about fishing for bass is an equally accomplished angler who makes it a point to never "pose".Self promotion is not for everybody but Ken has it mastered,no doubt the consumate "poser".I thought DaveS made a great post where he was able to feed Ken's ego and tell him to knock it off at the same time.Some day it will sink in,but until then he will bend over for more fanny patting.He seems to need it and no doubt enjoy it.Perhaps someday he will become an angler who the fishing community respects like Rockfish9 who has gained it by quietly respecting his fishery.

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by intrepid24

It seems weird to chastise cowhunter for keeping large fish, because many folks here are involved in the stiper cup, including myself. If any 50 lb fish was to be caught during the cup, it is most surely going to die.
Throwing stones seems slightly hypocritical, imho.
Are we any less responsible when we kill large fish for our own clubs ?

Cow Hunter is under the gun here because he makes his living off of a public resource, one that he appears to have little respect for. That and the fact that he enjoys showing off his kills.

Not everyone kills fish for their clubs or tournaments. Every year I fish multiple tourneys with my club, but I have absolutely NO intention of weighing in a big bass. If I were to catch a fish over 20lbs. it would go back. I don't kill. Period. Case in point- I had 2 new PBs over 42" in 1/2 hour last month. I spent upwards of 15 minutes reviving and releasing each one, rather than tossing them in the rocks and gunning for more.

As for the Striper Cup, I have posted my views here before, and suffice it to say, I find their insistance on running a kill only tournament to be irresponsible and self serving. In fact, I no longer subscribe to that periodical due to their stance on this issue.

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Piemma, you are wrong, and you are too smart a man and too good a fisherman to pass on such error.

Fish are not mammals.
Their fecundity increases with size/age. Here is an article on sea bass (there are similar studies on striped bass) Maturity, ovarian cycle, fecundity, and age-specific parturition of black rockfish | Fishery Bulletin | Find Articles at BNET . It only takes a moment to read the abstract and learn something.

Large bass breed at a different time of the spring than smaller bass, which increases the odds of a successful breeding year (since spawning success is in part weather dependent).

Genetic studies suggest that many good year classes are actually the result of a small number (a few hundred) fish that happened to hit it right. Wipe out a single pre-spawning school of fish and we may wipe out an entire year class.

If, like cowhunter, you want to legally kill large striped bass for whatever reason, go right ahead...it is your own business and, under current law, your right.

It is, however, long past time to drop the rationalization about large fish not being important breeders. It is a delusion people use to fool themselves that they are not hurting the fishery AND OTHER FISHERMEN when they kill these fish.

Fishing legally is not the same as fishing responsibly.

Keep in mind guys that bass can live to be 30 years, which underscores the importance of the largest breeders in the population.

Fish over 40" should be off limits to everyone. If you catch one bigger, get her measurements and have a fiberglass replica made.

[BigFish]

Striper Cup is not a kill only tournament. Just sayin'.

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Striper Cup is not a kill only tournament. Just sayin'.

Tell me more Larry.

[BigFish]

They have a catch and release program in place for people who enter fish in the tourney? Do some research.....check their website for details. Furthermore in their defense they have made numerous changes in their tournament to promote catch and release and to keep the mortality rate for the tournament low. Keep in mind many of the fish that do get entered would more than likely have been kept by their catcher regardless of the tournament.

My mistake they are for pounder pins only on the C and R.

[WoodyCT]

• CATCH & RELEASE -Fish caught and released by registered participants can be entered for pounder pins only. Catch-and-release affidavits will be available at weigh stations and provided online as a downloadable PDF. Fish should be weighed on a handheld scale or measured for length and girth and converted to pounds using the formula (Girth x Girth x Length / 800). Catch-and-release fish are not eligible for prizes, club points, or trophies. Catch-and-release fish do not count against your one fish per week limit and can be submitted for fish caught outside of a participant’s registered division.

You can get a pin for practicing C&R.

[BigFish]

You asked and many would like a pin to mark a personal accomplishment.....might not mean that much to you Woody but it does to others.....and if they can do that and release the fish whats wrong with that??

[striperman36]

winning team is stiil dead fish, sold for profit. let's have it be C&R. Who's winning then?

[Thumper]

[rizzo]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Not everyone kills fish for their clubs or tournaments. Every year I fish multiple tourneys with my club, but I have absolutely NO intention of weighing in a big bass. If I were to catch a fish over 20lbs. it would go back. I don't kill. Period. Case in point- I had 2 new PBs over 42" in 1/2 hour last month. I spent upwards of 15 minutes reviving and releasing each one, rather than tossing them in the rocks and gunning for more.

As for the Striper Cup, I have posted my views here before, and suffice it to say, I find their insistance on running a kill only tournament to be irresponsible and self serving. In fact, I no longer subscribe to that periodical due to their stance on this issue.

Woody - You seem to be a big advocate of C&R from your post. You admit to catching fish. Is it fair for me to say anyone who uses plugs is irresponsible because the treble hooks RIP THE FACES OFF of these beautiful fish we all seem to respect. Even a single hook can gut hook a fish RIPPING ITS STOMACH OUT OF ITS MOUTH. Can I go further to say that if someone cares so much about the fish why not give up fishing for them and devote more time to preservation of the species.

It took 15 minutes to revive each fish??? You played that fish too long and are using too light of tackle - are you irresponsible. Sending off a poor, tired fish like that can be worse than what Kenny is doing as that fish might not make it, and it probably died anyway. Your fish could have ended up dying as you over stressed that fish - it never will contribute to the gene pool. So at least Ken fed his someone with his fish.

With "PBs" of 42", it sounds like you're keeping track of numbers too? Thats competitive as well.

Also - you own fishing gear. Think of all those nasty epoxies, chemicals and other stuff that goes into the products you buy. Have you ever used a bathroom with a septic tank near the ocean. Thanks for contributing to nitrification of our beloved esturaries, slowly sufficating the baitfish that support these striped bass.

Have you ever thought about it from that perspective???

[rizzo]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Cow Hunter is under the gun here because he makes his living off of a public resource, one that he appears to have little respect for. That and the fact that he enjoys showing off his kills.

And what do you do for work??? Can you honestly say you've never hurt a resource to put money in your pocket?

[jim sylvester]

Kenny is an accomplished angler that catches large fish.......there is no denying that
keep in mind that he is also a charter captain........so did you guys ever think that every time he is posting large that are caught....they may be the clients choice to kill the fish..he could be just putting them on the fish.....the same way corsetti did it

everyone has their own opinions....don't get me wrong....but what he is doing is legal

in my eyes....with what you guys are saying he is posing or bragging....he is also marketing him and his charter business very well......therefore more clients.....theefore making more money doing something he loves to do


smart man kenny

[Slipknot]

he also gets on TV fishing shows that help promote his business


I'm pretty sure, the more we fish, the more we learn
and some of us change our decisions about things like tournaments and catch and release, and some of us don't appear to try too hard to sway others to their opinions since it a personal choice while others we be outspoken about it.

I like what Bob Pond had to say, something like a striped bass is too important of a fish to be caught only once.

But I also respect others choices to keep cows either for money of fame or food or whatever reason as long as it's legal. I know if I paid big money for a charter and I got a 50 and wanted to keep it, I certainly would.

[Nebe]

5 years from now, I don't think as many guys will be giving pats on the back to the cow killers. We are on a downward trend and until everyone wakes up, it's only going to get worse
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[WoodyCT]

Originally Posted by rizzo

And what do you do for work??? Can you honestly say you've never hurt a resource to put money in your pocket?

I'll address both your posts in this one.

In decades of fishing I have never ripped the face off a bass. If my plug hooks them badly I cut off the hook rather than pull it. And on the very rare occasions that I have fished eels I have used circle hooks.

As for my gear being too light... I fish a Lami 1201M with a ZB 25 and 50lb. Braid. My drag is set at 12lbs.. I fought those fish for no more than 5 minutes each. The fish were stressed by the warm water, so I took as much time as they needed to swim off strongly.

And no, I haven't raped a resource to put food on the table or green in my pocket. I'm a teacher.

As for that other crap. LOL.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[vanstaal]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Yeah right
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ditto
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

How can anybody fish for decades and have a PB of 42"?
I hope you teach better than you learn.
Teachers must do well to fish with ZB's.
Larry tried to explain it was not a kill only tournament and provided information stating such at your request.You seemed unimpressed by his efforts, yet still admit you fish tournaments with your club.Are these tournaments strictly C&R?If not,how does your conscience justify participation?How do you justify fishing eels when they are in a state of decline?
Keep in mind I am not criticizing any angler who is conservation minded unless they are hypocrites.I will also add that picking a scab on the internet will never accomplish anything besides a well worn debate.This passion you have for bass would serve them better at a regional level.Thank You.

[rizzo]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

And no, I haven't raped a resource to put food on the table or green in my pocket. I'm a teacher.

As for that other crap. LOL.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You were just crying about conservation of the species, then you're saying the other stuff I pointed out is crap. You even "LOL" it. You bust on Kenny, but you're attitude is far worse as you think you aren't negatively impacting anything.

I don't care what you do for work - the stuff you us to conduct class and live on a day to day basis is slowly killing the environment too. Paper, printers, electronics, inks, dyes - its all contributing to the problem. I'm sure you're living in a modern style home, everything you furnish it with. Its all just a very small percentage, that all adds up in the end. Pat yourself on the back, you're a steward to the environment over here, while the manufacturing of the fishing gear you use is creating a nasty byproduct somehwere else. And whereever that is ( you don't care by the attitude of your post), it may be discharged into a water body. This won't hurt anything though, its 3,000 miles away across the ocean. We'll never see the effects of it over here.

You'll read this and laugh, thinking i'm crazy, but put it in perspective man. Just by you getting geared up to go fishing you're contributing to the problem as well. Yeah its a small percentage so you don't see a problem with that, and god forbid you stop fishing. You're the harmless catch and release guy. Seems like that is the same attitude you've come to hate.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

Cow Hunter is under the gun here because he makes his living off of a public resource, one that he appears to have little respect for. That and the fact that he enjoys showing off his kills.

Not everyone kills fish for their clubs or tournaments. Every year I fish multiple tourneys with my club, but I have absolutely NO intention of weighing in a big bass. If I were to catch a fish over 20lbs. it would go back. I don't kill. Period. Case in point- I had 2 new PBs over 42" in 1/2 hour last month. I spent upwards of 15 minutes reviving and releasing each one, rather than tossing them in the rocks and gunning for more.

As for the Striper Cup, I have posted my views here before, and suffice it to say, I find their insistance on running a kill only tournament to be irresponsible and self serving. In fact, I no longer subscribe to that periodical due to their stance on this issue.

So, I have no respect for a public resource like striped bass because I kill a percentage every year as do MOST recreational and Commercial Anglers... People like you will never understand the fishery and thank God for that! All you know is what you read about and not what you have learned from experience. You dont need to say anymore, you fish tourneys but you dont have any intention of weighing a striped bass, (Makes Sense). Congrats on your decades of fishing to finally catch 2 42"ers (Personal Best).. You are decades away from a 30+lb fish unless they put a full moratorium in effect for the next 20 years! You dont like the striper Cup, Dont fish it, plain and simple and let those that fish it enjoy the tourney, (Im sure your view would be different if you had a shot)... You will never understand anyway. Glad your so educated on toxins in fish... Do you even know how they get the readings they do???? They take the ENTIRE fish and grind it up and test the samples... Im sure that you know where all these "Toxins" will be... Ill give you a hint, the least amount will be in the white fillet meat! Think They are grossly overstated? I know the type you are, more concerned about what everybody else is doing than what you yourself are because you know whats best for everyone. Dont judge others unless you want to be judged too... You are behind the curb a few decades...

Tight Lines Mr 12LB Drag... (Im sure it will be tight!)

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

They take the ENTIRE fish and grind it up and test the samples... Im sure that you know where all these "Toxins" will be... Ill give you a hint, the least amount will be in the white fillet meat! Think They are grossly overstated?

I think you are wrong, and just like your error about large striped bass not breeding I suspect the above is just more self-deluded rationalization. Actually it is likely worse, because it encourages people not to believe the multi-state guidelines against eating excessive contaminated striped bass.

As I understand it (and I am no expert) those guidelines are based on the average toxin levels in the FLESH of a number of fish. Keep in mind that some fish are many times above the average level. Furthermore, the average is likely (I have no proof) skewed by measuring small fish, since toxins accumulate over the life of fish and tend to be higher in larger fish. Perhaps you meant they grind up an entire FILLET...and maybe that is true....but the assumption that all the toxins are in the dark meat is careless and misleadingly dangerous unless you have an actual reference to support this assumption. If you do, please share it.

If you have children or your wife is pregnant, don't feed them striped bass.
If you like to eat it and are not pregant then feel free to enjoy 1-2 meals a month.
Takes a long time to eat a 40 lb bass at that rate. Maybe it is smarter to let it go to breed and make lots of smaller fish that are safer to eat?