Mass Striper decline numbers from NOAA

[scottw]

Originally Posted by afterhours

yes it's ALL about teaching the culture. as in teaching the culture about gamefish status and changing rec regs. this would would have a monumental effect on this fishery.....in a good way .

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now. Just tossing things around with others the last couple of days a bunch of good ideas have emerged and my eyes have really been opened regarding the depth of sentiment and sometimes lack of reason on all sides. Biggest obstacle to overcome is the sentiment "it's not us/me, it's the other guy that's doing all the damage" together with an entitlement metality in my opinion and I don't exclude myself from guilt in this.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now. Just tossing things around with others the last couple of days a bunch of good ideas have emerged and my eyes have really been opened regarding the depth of sentiment and sometimes lack of reason on all sides. Biggest obstacle to overcome is the sentiment "it's not us/me, it's the other guy that's doing all the damage" together with an entitlement metality in my opinion and I don't exclude myself from guilt in this.

It would take a paradigm shift, thats for sure.

Let's start easy
1@36"

Cut the commercial take coast-wide by 50%

[MAKAI]

I seldom fish bait, if I do it's with circles. Mostly fish single hook lures, jigs, rubber,tin etc. All the barbs on my plugs are crushed and the rear hooks on pencils are singles. I use fairly heavy tackle so fish isn't coming to me on it's side. Try to release fish while in water if I can.

I wasn't always this way, but if I'm gonna let them go I want to give them the best shot at survival.

I keep 3-4 a year, would rather cod,haddock,seabass,tuna,fluke,flounder and the list goes on. . . .





Once again the real issue isn't the slug of fish out there now, it's the low recruitment stocks behind them for the next 5-6 years.

Before any draconian measures need to be enacted, a coast-wide 1 @ 36 would be a good start. Let's them breed for a few more years before they get culled out. The end game would be better for everybody.

Just an old guy chiming in.

[stripermaineiac]

Rob I think a lot of states have talked about it. But there is still a lot of back room talk from some members of the charter industry that feel they shouldn't be limited as to what they use for gear as it cost them money ie cuts down the number of fish landed chunking.Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.

[striper774]

Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.[/QUOTE]

That's a BULLSEYE.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I was trying to be realistic, I don't think gamefish status is realistic, we can't even get length and limits adjusted. And we can yell all day long about points south and their practices but it's not going to amount to much. Better to focus on what you can directly affect now.

That's exactly why people want game fish status...because all the bickering over state rec/comm regs doesn't go any where.

-spence

[MakoMike]

Are there less stripers around now than there were a few years ago? Definitely. Does that mean that the population is "in trouble." no. We'll see what the new assessment has to say in a few months. I'm guessing the population in general is just fine, but we will have to wait to confirm that. Fish change patterns from year to year based on a whole slew of factors. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

[Alhbg]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Good point. I do both and will admit that it has been mostly from the boat for the past two years. Why? The shore fishing sucks.

I'm of the opinion that the reason the shore is worse is because of the lack of small fish. I keep a detailed log and the percentage of fish I caught that were 20" or less was 8% in 2010 and 5% in 2011. That used to be the keeper percentage five years ago.

[jimmy z]

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

[BassDawg]

NUMBERS,,,,,,,,,,,,

SCHMUMBERS!!!

the major problem with science is that it works in reverse~~~

an event happens; THEN, it goes about trying to "prove/disprove" the causes/results of the EVENT.

the inherent problem with scientific data is that it can be manipulated for whichever intent or purpose one funds it to be interpreted by~~~

numbers, data, yoy, indices, takes, ALL THE CRAP gets gathered and thrown into a witch's brew and then gets regurgitated back to us lay folk, lawmakers, and licensees to be told whatever the MONEY wants to tell!!! follow the money when it comes to "expert" anything, and you will hear two sides to every datum report, three sides to most issues, and in the end,,,,,,,,,,,,SADLY,,,,,,,,,,,,,the entity with the most power and lobby wins the managerial decision.

this has NEVER been about the Species, the Forage, or the Ocean!!!

if it ever TRULY was,,,,,,,,,,,,,would we have experienced the FIRST crash? would a single Corp like Omega be allowed to decimate Menhaden so recklessly? would the DelMarVa waters be so utterly polluted by the Poultry Industry and the Hudson so damaged by petrochemical runoffs?

will we ever LEARN?? ask the Plains Indians about their beloved American Bison!! i do not think that we are crashing the SB Stock, YET!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by jimmy z

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

[angler229]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

This is the exact problem with fisheries management as a whole. Instead of managing a species to make sure populations don't crash they are trying to take as much of possible the whole time verging on causing a crash.
Take winter flounder in the Gulf of Maine...how long ago had that fishery totally collapsed now we are finally seeing good fishing the last few years and management just almost doubled the commercial season limit from 510,000 to 1.1 million lbs. So instead of sticking with a management plan that has allowed the species to rebound and grow they are heading right back down the same path. How long before we see the same thing happen again?

[Redsoxticket]

Who are these people because I want to kick their ass
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Slipknot]

they can't maintain cod and now stripers, but they protect dogfish to the point that there are so many of them , that they are all around the same or similar size and chow on all the juvenile cod and whatever else they can eat, good thing seals will kill them too.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by big jay

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

Don't forget the estimates that something like 70+% of the stripers in the Chesapeake are infected with myco.

[MassBass]

Anyone who cares and has the time should step up and attend the Feb. 28th gamefish bill hearing at the Boston State House. Let them hear it. Typing back and forth to each other won't do a damn thing.

[JohnR]

Go back to 2006 limits recreational and commercial THEN cut back another 33%

Rec -v- Comm is just rearranging the deck chairs.

[BasicPatrick]

The government has asked if you will attend the State House Hearing and have your say. If you think this one is pre determined you are uninformed. The State House is watching this one closely. Posting here means NOTHING. Show up and be heard or shut up because Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Blah Blah fcukin Blah...whine, whine, whine

Show up and be part of the solution...make some noise.

[Redsoxticket]

Here is the place and time.

Room B-1 in the Statehouse Bldg on Beacon Hill in Boston on Feb 28th at 11:00 AM.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Numbskull, Alot has changed the last few years for the shorebound guys up north. In all seriousness do you think that even a moratorium for 1,2 years will bring back the surf fishing on the cape for instance, Back Beaches???? I dont think it will be what it was for a very long time or ever for that matter. When was the last time NC got a surf bass run which used to be the norm every year? Over a decade ago? You think they will fill they're com limit this year, I bet not, the fish are all north of NC. There are alot more different environmental factors there, along with alot of other places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. Try selling to all those guys that the stocks are in trouble, or to the guys off VA trolling 40,50,80, 100 fish a trip. They wont hear it. There are to many cyclical things going on Temps, bait, migrational patterns, etc... Yeah I think things are really out of whack, While some areas are lacking other areas its the opposite. Yes we probably are killing to many fish coastwide, making cuts in other fish species switches the targeted species. What I see as trouble in my back yard is cutting season length, limits on fluke, flounder, sea bass, tog forces alot of charter guys, rec guys to target striped bass, its always open, and the limits havent changed in years. When every single boat out there is fishing for just striped bass because u cant fish for anything else is a bit of problem, and they dont need 2 a person. Quite a site to see 150 ft headboats with 40 plus guys snagging and dropping bunker! Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

It would take a paradigm shift, thats for sure.

Let's start easy
1@36"

Cut the commercial take coast-wide by 50%

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

I was always for the 1@36" dont know many guys that werent.... Meanwhile its complicated for many, they throw in these slot limits of smaller fish that kill even more fish. (But then they do benefit the average stripers forever flyfishermen).

[Alhbg]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Exactly.
Why is this complicated?

1@36" for rec/charter. Reduce commercial take.
25% the first year with additional 5% a year reduction for another 5 years.

It's all about money. No politician or their appointee will do anything that will be viewed as causing economic hardship.

[jimmy z]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. happens. Enjoy your season......

It's a false positive. But I agree, because in this case seeing is not believing.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I bet not, the fish are all north of NC.

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by zimmy

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

I respectfully disagree, the southern most states in a migratory range and northern most states in a migratory range are more influenced by weather, temps, and bait migration. I have caught Striped bass in water temps as cold as 38-39 degrees and as warm as 74-75 degrees. They will be where the bait is, unfortunately for the shore guys, they have become more of an offshore fish. As far as the slot limits, terrible, terrible idea. Some state, such as my home state of NJ did it for a few years and it wiped out the smaller " Resident" fish. They did away with that slot limit, but to late, damage was done. Its been a few years and things are yet to return back to the "Norm". Its alot easier to catch a 20 some odd inch ranch fish than a 40 plus inch range, the smaller fish are more abundant, natural scale of things, and they hit EVERYTHING. A slot limit does nothing more than kill more fish, fish that one day will become breeders. We should be all working for a common goal, a healthy striped bass stock benefits rec, boat, surf, com, and charter guys, unfortunately every group is trying to do whats best for one instead whats best for all....

[CowHunter]

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

You are clearly demonstrating the mentality that lead to the first collapse. Circumstantial evidence to support what you want to believe.

A few years of slot in New Jersey is enough for you to reach a conclusion? One side you say best fishing ever, the next you say it hasn't returned to the norm. The fish you are catching in Jersey come out of the Hudson and Chesapeake. They aren't resident on the coast. There may be small numbers wintering in the estuaries, but the idea they wiped out the resident local fish is the same kind of science as showing a sonogram of a school of fish as your evidence the population is fine. The trouble is, too many people with similar mentality who are thinking with their wallets have enormous clout with the reg makers.