Mass Striper decline numbers from NOAA

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Numbskull, Alot has changed the last few years for the shorebound guys up north. In all seriousness do you think that even a moratorium for 1,2 years will bring back the surf fishing on the cape for instance, Back Beaches???? I dont think it will be what it was for a very long time or ever for that matter. When was the last time NC got a surf bass run which used to be the norm every year? Over a decade ago? You think they will fill they're com limit this year, I bet not, the fish are all north of NC. There are alot more different environmental factors there, along with alot of other places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. Try selling to all those guys that the stocks are in trouble, or to the guys off VA trolling 40,50,80, 100 fish a trip. They wont hear it. There are to many cyclical things going on Temps, bait, migrational patterns, etc... Yeah I think things are really out of whack, While some areas are lacking other areas its the opposite. Yes we probably are killing to many fish coastwide, making cuts in other fish species switches the targeted species. What I see as trouble in my back yard is cutting season length, limits on fluke, flounder, sea bass, tog forces alot of charter guys, rec guys to target striped bass, its always open, and the limits havent changed in years. When every single boat out there is fishing for just striped bass because u cant fish for anything else is a bit of problem, and they dont need 2 a person. Quite a site to see 150 ft headboats with 40 plus guys snagging and dropping bunker! Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

[jimmy z]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. happens. Enjoy your season......

It's a false positive. But I agree, because in this case seeing is not believing.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I bet not, the fish are all north of NC.

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by zimmy

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

I respectfully disagree, the southern most states in a migratory range and northern most states in a migratory range are more influenced by weather, temps, and bait migration. I have caught Striped bass in water temps as cold as 38-39 degrees and as warm as 74-75 degrees. They will be where the bait is, unfortunately for the shore guys, they have become more of an offshore fish. As far as the slot limits, terrible, terrible idea. Some state, such as my home state of NJ did it for a few years and it wiped out the smaller " Resident" fish. They did away with that slot limit, but to late, damage was done. Its been a few years and things are yet to return back to the "Norm". Its alot easier to catch a 20 some odd inch ranch fish than a 40 plus inch range, the smaller fish are more abundant, natural scale of things, and they hit EVERYTHING. A slot limit does nothing more than kill more fish, fish that one day will become breeders. We should be all working for a common goal, a healthy striped bass stock benefits rec, boat, surf, com, and charter guys, unfortunately every group is trying to do whats best for one instead whats best for all....

[CowHunter]

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I love finding this in the spring day to day, 1,000's of 30-40lb bass swimming past under the boat, but yet they are almost extinct?

You are clearly demonstrating the mentality that lead to the first collapse. Circumstantial evidence to support what you want to believe.

A few years of slot in New Jersey is enough for you to reach a conclusion? One side you say best fishing ever, the next you say it hasn't returned to the norm. The fish you are catching in Jersey come out of the Hudson and Chesapeake. They aren't resident on the coast. There may be small numbers wintering in the estuaries, but the idea they wiped out the resident local fish is the same kind of science as showing a sonogram of a school of fish as your evidence the population is fine. The trouble is, too many people with similar mentality who are thinking with their wallets have enormous clout with the reg makers.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You are clearly demonstrating the mentality that lead to the first collapse. Circumstantial evidence to support what you want to believe.

A few years of slot in New Jersey is enough for you to reach a conclusion? One side you say best fishing ever, the next you say it hasn't returned to the norm. The fish you are catching in Jersey come out of the Hudson and Chesapeake. They aren't resident on the coast. There may be small numbers wintering in the estuaries, but the idea they wiped out the resident local fish is the same kind of science as showing a sonogram of a school of fish as your evidence the population is fine. The trouble is, too many people with similar mentality who are thinking with their wallets have enormous clout with the reg makers.

No, the fish I am reffering to are all the Bay fish, That has not returned to the norm. The migratory runs have been better than ever. Way different. I can go any day of the week, month and catch em in my home waters, pretty aware as to whats going on here. Yes there are curveballs every year. But I did see what a slot limit did... You??? Small number wintering in the Thames? Hudson? Or Offshore in the Mudhole? Kent Island, Chesapeake? or 13 plus miles off the VA, NC coast??? Where did a awesome YOY come from? A Fluke, please explain? catching 30-100 plus fish, times many, every day and its over? You dont see the Carnage I take....

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

kenny,how many miles of bass were there off jersey this fall?,do you think it is the same mass of fish that were off chatham.i think if some people expierenced these massive schools of fish firsthand they might change the way they think.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

But I did see what a slot limit did... You??? You dont see the Carnage I take....

Only slot limit I have experience with is drum in N.C, which seems to work well, and stripers within the Chespaeake. The drum would be slaughterred with a 1@36 or 2@28. The chesapeake has 18" minimum and a slot in the potomac 18-28" for decades. I'm not sure how you are connecting the dots as far as the effect of the slot and what you mean by Bay fish, etc. Chesapeake, Delaware, Raritan? You can catch them all year long, but the slot wrecked that?
1 fish, whether 22-28 or 36 is better than what we have. I am not sure there is any evidence that you are correct that 1@22-28" would wipe out the population, but the 2@28 is working (clearly, in your experience). In any case, I am glad I don't rely on them for financial purposes. It is too bad that the regulations are driven by those who profit by killing the biggest fish.

[Pharmacyguy]

Years long declines in catches in multiple states, total catch rates declining every year since 2006. An absence of schoolies in many traditional spots. Stripers are considered littoral fish aka the "rockfish" and for the entire documented history we have of striped bass people caught them standing on the shore. Damn near every guy fishing from shore is saying they aren't catching fish the way they used to just a few years ago but we are supposed to believe that because the boat guys are slaughtering them that we don't have serious problem?!?