Obama's VA Secretary says wait lines at VA Hosp are like wait lines at Disney

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't disagree with what he was trying to say.

OK. So to you, there is do difference between...

(1) a family at Disney, waiting in line for an hour, by their choice, to get on "It's A Small World", and

(2) a wounded veteran, injured while serving his country, that has to wait 30 days to see a doctor?

By your admission, those 2 things are indistinguishable to you. Well here is a difference. Some might say it's not a small difference. No one ever died from #1. We know that people, selfless patriots, have died because of #2. By your admission, vets dying because of a lack of available care, is no more concerning to you (nor to the Secretary of Vets Affairs) than having to wait in line at an amusement park. Same thing. One is no more of a natoinal concern (or shame) than the other.

Remarks matter. When Bush told teh Fema head that he was "doing a heck of a job" while people were dying in New Orleans 3 days after the wind stopped blowing, it was a Godawful, stupid, insensitive thing to say. I am abke to say that about a Republican. You can't do the same. Amazing.



Welcome to The Twiligt Zone.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK. So to you, there is do difference between...

(1) a family at Disney, waiting in line for an hour, by their choice, to get on "It's A Small World", and

(2) a wounded veteran, injured while serving his country, that has to wait 30 days to see a doctor?

By your admission, those 2 things are indistinguishable to you.

Jim, as usual you're failing to see the point of his remark. Macdonald wasn't asserting the two were the same, his point was that the focus should be on the overall quality of care rather than dwell on a single metric. That doesn't mean that wait time isn't important, but it's a single component of a large system.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, as usual you're failing to see the point of his remark. Macdonald wasn't asserting the two were the same, his point was that the focus should be on the overall quality of care rather than dwell on a single metric. That doesn't mean that wait time isn't important, but it's a single component of a large system.

His point was that people dying while waiting for care at a VA hospital, says nothing more about the level of service provided, than someone who waits in line at an amusement park.


So what he (and you) are is this...if there are lines at Disney, that's no more of a blemish to Disney, than dead bodies in the waiting room are at a VA Hospital.

Spence, if you had to wait in lines at Disney, and then you had to wait more than 30 days to get treated at a hospital, and you had to fill out a satisfaction survey for both entities, you'd give them the same score? You don't hold a hospitalk more accountable for wait times that are literallyu fatal, than you hold Disney accountable for ride lines?

Bullsh*t.

No one has the right to expect short lines at Disney. In my opinion (which you and McDonald disagree with), vets should have the right to get seen by a doctor before they die from their injuries. That's just me, missing the point all the time, and failing to see the brilliant, subtle nuances of the Secretary selected by your beloved man crush.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

His point was that people dying while waiting for care at a VA hospital, says nothing more about the level of service provided, than someone who waits in line at an amusement park.


So what he (and you) are is this...if there are lines at Disney, that's no more of a blemish to Disney, than dead bodies in the waiting room are at a VA Hospital.

Spence, if you had to wait in lines at Disney, and then you had to wait more than 30 days to get treated at a hospital, and you had to fill out a satisfaction survey for both entities, you'd give them the same score? You don't hold a hospitalk more accountable for wait times that are literallyu fatal, than you hold Disney accountable for ride lines?

Bullsh*t.

No one has the right to expect short lines at Disney. In my opinion (which you and McDonald disagree with), vets should have the right to get seen by a doctor before they die from their injuries. That's just me, missing the point all the time, and failing to see the brilliant, subtle nuances of the Secretary selected by your beloved man crush.

Jim, as usual you're failing to see the point of his remark. Macdonald wasn't asserting the two were the same, his point was that the focus should be on the overall quality of care rather than dwell on a single metric. That doesn't mean that wait time isn't important, but it's a single component of a large system.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, as usual you're failing to see the point of his remark. Macdonald wasn't asserting the two were the same, his point was that the focus should be on the overall quality of care rather than dwell on a single metric. That doesn't mean that wait time isn't important, but it's a single component of a large system.

And how good is the overall quality of a healthcare system, when people are dying because it takes thirty days or more to see a doctor? How does such a syatem get any grade other than 'F'?

I concede that wait times aren't the only measure of quality. But when wait times are literally killing our vets, most rational people would conclude that the overall quality of care is in shambles. By contrast, ride lines at Disney are not the most important aspect o fthe trip.

Maybe if I put it simply, you can get it...if you take your family to Disney and the lines are long, naturally you can still have a positive overall experience. If you have a combat-related brain injury and die before you get to see a doctor, I don't know that you'd be as capable of having a positive overall experience.

Fatal wait lines at a veterans healthcare facility, necessarily mean that things are a mess. Wait lines at an amusement park can be meaningless.

Am I going too fast? .

[wdmso]

funny I have had no issues with getting timely appointments thru the Va in Providence or Boston from MRI to Hearing Aids .. I just see this as another Manufactured issue from the right .. just another topic that magically showed up when Obama took office..

Are there some issues with the Volumes of service members entering the system yes . but you can't fit 100 passengers on a 25 passenger bus but dont want to buy new buses


http://taskandpurpose.com/va-bosses-...g-new-reports/

Altogether, 40 VA hospitals and clinics across the U.S. and Puerto Rico were found to be “zeroing out” wait times

The Veterans Health Administration (VHA) is home to the United States' largest integrated health care system consisting of 152 medical centers. In addition, there are nearly 800 community-based outpatient clinics, 126 nursing home care units and 35 domiciliaries.

So you have to wait you learn in the military it always Hurry up and Wait.. honestly who hasn't waited for an appointment.. if its an emergency you go to the emergency room... not any easier than that

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

funny I have had no issues with getting timely appointments thru the Va in Providence or Boston from MRI to Hearing Aids .. I just see this as another Manufactured issue from the right .. just another topic that magically showed up when Obama took office..

Are there some issues with the Volumes of service members entering the system yes . but you can't fit 100 passengers on a 25 passenger bus but dont want to buy new buses


http://taskandpurpose.com/va-bosses-...g-new-reports/

Altogether, 40 VA hospitals and clinics across the U.S. and Puerto Rico were found to be “zeroing out” wait times

The Veterans Health Administration (VHA) is home to the United States' largest integrated health care system consisting of 152 medical centers. In addition, there are nearly 800 community-based outpatient clinics, 126 nursing home care units and 35 domiciliaries.

So you have to wait you learn in the military it always Hurry up and Wait.. honestly who hasn't waited for an appointment.. if its an emergency you go to the emergency room... not any easier than that

"I have had no issues "


Hmm, how to break this to you...your experience doesn't necessarily reflect the experience of everyone else. For example, I didn't get hit by a drunk driver yesterday. Does that mean that drunk driving is a manufactured issue? Does that sound like sound logic to you?

"I just see this as another Manufactured issue from the right "

Well, that explains why the right-wing nut named Barack Obama, is quoted in the right-wing website called The Huffington Post, as saying there actually is an issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6867142.html

"who hasn't waited for an appointment"

People have died while waiting. If that's not an issue for you, you have the right to not care about that. Lots of people, on both sides, are outraged.

Another article from the right-wing network called CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health...ays/index.html

From the article..."The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor"

And somehow, the Secretary of Vets Affairs say that this practice is no more of a blemish to his organization than ride lines are at Disney.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

. I just see this as another Manufactured issue from the right .. just another topic that magically showed up when Obama took office..

The Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal refers to a series of allegations of unsatisfactory conditions, treatment of patients, and management at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center (WRAMC) in Washington, D.C. culminating in two articles published by The Washington Post in February 2007. Several cases of patient neglect and shoddy living conditions were reported as early as 2004. "Soldiers suffering from traumatic brain injuries or stress disorders, others with amputated limbs, have languished for weeks and months on end in vermin-infested quarters waiting for a decision on their military status and a ruling on the level of benefits they will receive if they are discharged and transferred to the civilian-run Veterans Administration (VA) healthcare system."


http://www.disabledveterans.org/2014...dministration/

http://www.usnews.com/news/national/...enefits-claims

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17117430/n...then-big-cuts/


just sayin'

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, as usual you're failing to see the point of his remark. Macdonald wasn't asserting the two were the same, his point was that the focus should be on the overall quality of care rather than dwell on a single metric. That doesn't mean that wait time isn't important, but it's a single component of a large system.

I agree . People sometimes speak without analyzing every word to be spoken . I give the guy a pass on this as long as he is competent and getting the results that our veterans deserve . If he can't get the job done then someone else should take his place
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