Islam

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

WDMSO, what large, global movement was the nut on the train, a part of? is that how you define a
terrorist attack by "global movement ? he was "White Nationalist we care more about when the word islamic is attached

terrorism, terrorist act. the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. coup de main, surprise attack.

we care more about when the word islamic is attached

Wrong. I don't care more about one victim than the other. But I see a difference between things that we can easily stop (who comes to our country and who doesn't), and things that are much harder to control (what some individual lunatic does in a country of 300 million people).

In other words, there is no logical way I know of, to prevent individual lunatics from harming others. But there absolutely are things we can do, to reduce our exposure to jihadists. It's a question of whether or not we are willing to do it. But it can be done if we chose to do so.

"And I dont see people making a concerted effort to see them as equal in their host countries "

Please support that. Why are Muslims so desperate to flee to the West, if they are treated so shabbily there?

whats there to support you

just made my point "But there absolutely are things we can do, to reduce our exposure to jihadists." you make distinctions between a murders action based on religion i make my based on outcome white guy on the train co worker kills 5 ruth killed nine people and husband and wife (the only one called terrorism) i see them all as terrorism


That husband and wife who went on an office killing spree a few years ago (California?), had just been given a baby shower at the husband's company. The jihadists don't kill us because we are mean to them. They kill us because aren't exactly like them, we don't force our women to dress like ninjas and mutilate their genitals. You really don't see that?

being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed .. you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID you accept their legitimacy you call them Global, you make it an us against them and will do what every is needed and allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others its been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed .. you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID you accept their legitimacy you call them Global, you make it an us against them and will do what every is needed and allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others its been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History

"you make distinctions between a murders action based on religion i make my based on outcome white guy on the train co worker kills 5 ruth killed nine people and husband and wife (the only one called terrorism) i see them all as terrorism"

So because there is no way to stop ALL terror attacks (or all murders), you argue that there's no reason to try and stop any. Brilliant.

There is a huge difference between some random nut who goes on a killing spree because he's a schizophrenic psychopath, and what Osama Bin Laden did. If you disagree with that, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't make that distinction. Dead is dead - I agree on that. But different types of crime represent different problems requiring different solutions. You are saying that because no one solution works for all, that means there is no solution worth trying. You have the right of that opinion. But I don't get it.

You work in criminal justice. Don't you know that we have gun laws to prevent certain types of crime, we have drug laws to prevent other types of crime, we have domestic violence programs to prevent yet other types of crime, we have drinking and driving laws to prevent yet another type of crime.

Why have DUI laws? People still get killed in car accidents, right? That's the logic you are using.

[JohnR]

Ahhh. 1983 all over again

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"you make distinctions between a murders action based on religion i make my based on outcome white guy on the train co worker kills 5 ruth killed nine people and husband and wife (the only one called terrorism) i see them all as terrorism"

So because there is no way to stop ALL terror attacks (or all murders), you argue that there's no reason to try and stop any. Brilliant.

There is a huge difference between some random nut who goes on a killing spree because he's a schizophrenic psychopath, and what Osama Bin Laden did. If you disagree with that, you might be the only person in the world who doesn't make that distinction. Dead is dead - I agree on that. But different types of crime represent different problems requiring different solutions. You are saying that because no one solution works for all, that means there is no solution worth trying. You have the right of that opinion. But I don't get it.

You work in criminal justice. Don't you know that we have gun laws to prevent certain types of crime, we have drug laws to prevent other types of crime, we have domestic violence programs to prevent yet other types of crime, we have drinking and driving laws to prevent yet another type of crime.

Why have DUI laws? People still get killed in car accidents, right? That's the logic you are using.

your funny I never suggested not try to stop any crimes or terror attacks.. Just countering you're suggestion that banning a religion is prevention

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed .. you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID you accept their legitimacy you call them Global, you make it an us against them and will do what every is needed and allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others its been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History

"being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed"

Wrong. There isn't anything under my bed. But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

"you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID"

I would argue you have become what they want us to be - clueless.

"you accept their legitimacy "

I do? When the hell did I do that?

"call them Global"

Yes, because they operate in almost every country on the planet. I could call that "local", but that would be inaccurate.

"you make it an us against them "

No, they made it us against them when they declared jihad and flew planes into buildings. Jesus.

"allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others"

You betcha.

"ts been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History"

Every criminal law we have on the books, every single one, limts the freedom of some, for the protection of someone else. Should we do away with criminal laws?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"being afraid of ISIS is like being afraid of whats under your bed"

Wrong. There isn't anything under my bed. But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

"you have become exactly what they want you to be AFRAID"

I would argue you have become what they want us to be - clueless.

"you accept their legitimacy "

I do? When the hell did I do that?

"call them Global"

Yes, because they operate in almost every country on the planet. I could call that "local", but that would be inaccurate.

"you make it an us against them "

No, they made it us against them when they declared jihad and flew planes into buildings. Jesus.

"allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others"

You betcha.

"ts been done before and wasn't a shining moment in our History"

Every criminal law we have on the books, every single one, limts the freedom of some, for the protection of someone else. Should we do away with criminal laws?

But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

I am more afraid for my kids with pedophile priest than isis in America


Where have you been for the last 30 years ?? these people have been around by different names same places same ideas same actions. the internet has made them look untouchable global

I am all for vigilance But operating based on Fear do not have the same out come

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

But there is a huge number of jihadists who would cut my kids' heads off if they could get their hands on them.

I am more afraid for my kids with pedophile priest than isis in America


Where have you been for the last 30 years ?? these people have been around by different names same places same ideas same actions. the internet has made them look untouchable global

I am all for vigilance But operating based on Fear do not have the same out come

"I am more afraid for my kids with pedophile priest than isis in America

I am sure you are. Another example of your logic and bigotry towards those with whom you disagree.

"these people have been around by different names same places same ideas same actions"

Today is no different than 30 years ago? 9/11 wasn't a game-changer? They aren't killing more people today than 30 years ago? Wow. I mean, wow.

"the internet has made them look untouchable " Name one person who thinks they are untouchable? Ever heard of drone strikes? They are very, very touchable. Do you ever stop putting words in other people's mouths? I cannot begin to imagine from where you get your information, about what people like me think. Your assumptions about what we believe, are hilarious.

"I am all for vigilance "

No, you're not. You said ISIS was no more of a threat than what's under my bed. Your words, not mine.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

allow freedoms to be reduced for some ...for the protection of the others

The "Some" you refer to have no freedoms...zip, zilch, nada. They are refugees living in another country (Syria). IF they can pass a better vetting process, they can come here and instantly gain freedoms they did not have before. So nothing is being reduced.

And the "Others" you refer to are US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here.

Damn skippy that's an acceptable trade-off.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The "Some" you refer to have no freedoms...zip, zilch, nada. They are refugees living in another country (Syria). IF they can pass a better vetting process, they can come here and instantly gain freedoms they did not have before. So nothing is being reduced.

And the "Others" you refer to are US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here.

Damn skippy that's an acceptable trade-off.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We have a vetting process not sure what your better vetting involves other than Ban .... and what about US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here. who are getting lump into America Islamic fear not for anything they have done but by the fear of what they may do just because they are Muslim.. we did this with Japanese Americans what makes you think it cant happen again

We have a POTUS who leads the fear parade to play to his base
so he goes after Londons Mayor (after the attack ) and Londoners are not very happy

Trump mocked Khan's comment on Sunday, suggesting in a tweet that the mayor was downplaying the attacks.

Trump's comments drew widespread scorn in Britain but the U.S. leader went on the attack again on Monday, saying in a tweet: "Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his 'no reason to be alarmed' statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!" Trump wrote. MSM referred to mainstream media.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

We have a vetting process not sure what your better vetting involves other than Ban .... and what about US citizens and law abiding immigrants that we have allowed to come here. who are getting lump into America Islamic fear not for anything they have done but by the fear of what they may do just because they are Muslim.. we did this with Japanese Americans what makes you think it cant happen again

We have a POTUS who leads the fear parade to play to his base
so he goes after Londons Mayor (after the attack ) and Londoners are not very happy

Trump mocked Khan's comment on Sunday, suggesting in a tweet that the mayor was downplaying the attacks.

Trump's comments drew widespread scorn in Britain but the U.S. leader went on the attack again on Monday, saying in a tweet: "Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his 'no reason to be alarmed' statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!" Trump wrote. MSM referred to mainstream media.

So you are saying that if we ban immigration from places where we can't vet, that it's inevitable that would lead to rounding up US citizens and sending them to concentration camps.

WDMSO, yes, that happened before. That doesn't mean that we can't stop it from happening again. Believe it or not, it is possible to take some extra steps to increase security, without abandoning the Constitution completely. We aren't one small step away from being a police state, that's a long way from where we are.

"We have a POTUS who leads the fear parade"

Some call it an appropriate reaction to the jihad declared. By your own admission, you have zero concern about ISIS, so naturally you feel that "any" concern, is too much.

"Trump mocked Khan's comment on Sunday, suggesting in a tweet that the mayor was downplaying the attacks"

That mayor is a lunatic. Right after the attack, he tells citizens that there's nothing to be concerned about? "See all those mutilated bodies? All those dead kids from the concert last week? Nothing to be concerned about!"