22 dead kids

[Diamond Tackle]

My grandmother who is 88 now, was once help up at goinpoint(she was about 78? at the time), 2 thugs with what looked lile a "big silver revolver" to her. The thugs were for real ,as the cops told us later. it was raining, and she BEAT one of them over the head with an umbrella, and yelled police as loud as she could. they RAN & got nothing. Granted this a completely diff situation,and was on a city block in the bronx where a cop could literally have been around the corner, turns out they were just a minute away. Point is, people react diff to situation. Some just choose NOT to be a victim. grandma has a hist(when she was very young ) of defending herself, but I cant get into that here.
As stated above, training takes over when u are being shot at. My NYC cop friends , all say the same thing, they get really PISSED when being shot at, none of them cower down ,they shoot back, and usually they have to restrain themselved from killing the perp.
Proper training saves lives. Im guessing a lot of our boys over in Iraq were absol no diff than these college students, but they were properly trained, and now fear almost noone. You only need one guy to step up.
The drunken college kid comment is somewhat lame IMO, cops drink too when they are off duty. Carrying is a huge responsibility and not everyone would be qualified, 21 is a good age IMO, and if you would not even trust a professor with a permit, maybe you should not send your kids to that school. Personally I would feel a lot safer knowing that Profs like that Holocaust survivor (who gave his life without any hesitation) were packing.

[TheSpecialist]

Ben the situations I was in were different, I was deer hunting, and I could see the A hole, so I yelled at him. He just took off, he was about 80 yards away in the woods . When I was 17 I had a 357 shoved in my face while closing my cousins pizza place at night. I can honestly say I was'nt scared, just level headed, gave them what they wanted and they left.

[fishpoopoo]

bill, that sucks.

[Swimmer]

I wasn't going to add anything to this but........

There is a trailer used in training in my area that the sherriff's department tows to various locals and department instructors take officers in one or two at a time. The trailer is lined with thick steel and rubber on the inside and coupled with a lead ejection system is a really neat way to train in shoot/dont shoot situations. Their were as I understood approximately 100 different taped shoot/dont shoot confrontations on tape. You use the forward half of the trailer, and interact with what ever is taking place on the screen in front of you. Real ammunition is used. While no one would comment on who they shot or how many rounds they fired at different perps on the screen I did find a noticable difference between myself and two much younger officers I went through the exercise with. There was a noticable difference with what I felt comfortable with as an end result and what the younger officers found acceptable. You can see the bullet penentrate the perp/screen and while the other officers fired thier weapons, they did not fire as much or as soon as I found necessary.
The only younger officers who do protect themselves adequately are the veterans. While the others reaction time is considered appropriate it might not keep them healthy. My point is the younger the person, less experienced in life, the less likely they'll shoot at all, or enough to "stop" the person.
Again I have to say distance is the first choice one needs from the aggressor. It increases the chance of survival in multiples that can't be measured almost.
Many well thought out posts on this, very interesting.

Bassturbed, sorry to hear about your "ED".

[fishpoopoo]

Swimmer,

I will go on record saying that the average gun owner who intends to CCW could use more training to understand the practical, legal, and moral issues. They are quite complex, as you know.

In my mind, a basic handgun safety course just doesn't cut it for the average joe. It is but an introduction.

LEO's such as yourself get periodic training and refreshers on the job.

Folks in the private sector need to pay for it. I think every person who CCW's should at a minimum take DOCUMENTABLE TRAINING such as LFI I (http://www.ayoob.com) or similar, and take a fighting handgun/force-on-force course (such as offered by http://www.tacticalresponse.com) on top of that. And plenty of range practice in between.

Comprehensive shoot/don't shoot exercises are probably more applicable to LEO's, as the average citizen isn't exposed to the same kinds of scenarios as cops are. The best I've ever got was a simulator exercise.

[JohnR]

I was shot at once, Mission Hill, I fled - bet your ass...

[fishpoopoo]

info for the Rhode Island crowd...

RI is on paper a "shall-issue" state for RI residents ("may-issue" for nonresidents).

an increasing number of people have aggressively pushed their local pd's for carry permits and have gotten them.

more info here: (go to the message board).

http://www.cralri.com/