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Old 03-03-2009, 09:46 AM   #61
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Well, it just shows the market is silly

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:46 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Not to mention that a diesel can last several hundred thousand miles more. Thus justifing the added initial cost. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why diesel fuel is more then gas. Prior to 2003 it was cheaper.
I've read a few articles that include Fishparts reasoning but also with others. Now, I don't know nearly enough on how the supply of fuel works but this is what I've read.

Quote:
Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U.S., putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/6846...an-regular-gas


And my personal favorite:
Quote:
In the end, the best explanation may be, as William of Ockham believed, the simplest one. Perhaps diesel prices have gone high and stayed there because that's what the market will bear. In that older article, we asked a petroleum industry insider why oil companies were charging so much for diesel. The insider's telling reply:

"Because we can."
http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/...-than-gas.html
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:58 AM   #63
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Thanks John, good info.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:45 PM   #64
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low-sulfur distillate
road tax

delivery, I can't believe that.

and marketing, gas cars don't last as long

it's an endless list, but go to any other country and it's 95 pct diesel
compared to 10 pct gas but freight is 90 pct diesel

Last edited by striperman36; 03-03-2009 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:09 PM   #65
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So in the end every product moved by freight cost us all more.
Simple plan here; eliminate the tax and it will lower goods for everyone.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:29 PM   #66
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I'm with that one.

So we have reduce taxes for sole proprietorship's handled as individual income

Reduce the diesel road tax to reduce cost of goods shipped.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:36 PM   #67
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I'm with that one.

So we have reduce taxes for sole proprietorship's handled as individual income

Reduce the diesel road tax to reduce cost of goods shipped.
They will never go for it. Makes to much sense and goes against their motto, "government good, capitalism bad "
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:15 PM   #68
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The Obama Economy As the Dow keeps dropping, the President is running out of people t

Uhoh

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1236...le_wsj_gadgv1&

I can see the posts now
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:14 PM   #69
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At the moment, the charts seem ready and willing to deliver another leg on the downside. This can be best seen on weekly charts, in which the "hump" formed between November and here serves as an umbrella, and the market is dripping off the right side. In terms of the SP-500, this down leg could easily fall to around 600, although 450 is certainly not out of the question. A reasonable target for the Dow is 5800.


Thats gonna hurt
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:24 PM   #70
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another whacko that thinks Obama is f'ing the whole country.


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Old 03-03-2009, 10:27 PM   #71
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brilliant article.

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Old 03-04-2009, 06:47 AM   #72
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Don't let the results of his actions, the Dow , or what those crazy right wingers say, be the leading factors in judging what Obama's vision of America will result in. Have a little hope.

Change is a comin and you can't stop it. So bend over and take it like a liberal.
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Old 03-04-2009, 07:28 AM   #73
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Change is a comin and you can't stop it. So bend over and take it like a liberal.
Or a conservative because we're all going to take it up the you know what.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:06 AM   #74
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If you took just a teeny second to bother to read the threads instead of your constant mantra of calling others who disagree with you "drones"you'd see that NO ONE said the collapse of the economy was Obamas fault, the point was that the stock market reacts NEGATIVELY to Obamas announcements of his plans. One could assume that the people whose sole purpose is to benefit from a market rise, would delight in action by the government ot "improve" things, no? I put up proof to counter those that say the market is reacting to the fundamentals. Bernanke made one lame announcement that the recession may be over by year end and the same day the market was up over 200 points as a result. The MArket reacts, so far it reacts negatively to Obama. Not a good sign.
Theres more mindless droning on in this forum about how Obamas solely responsible for the decline in the markets than I have seen anywhere else. The theory that with whole world in a deep recession, one man words are responsible for moving the market each day is laughable. You have the world's largest insurer needing to borrow more $bill b/c their demise would wreck havoc on the insur. industry, the world's biggest corp. with a stock price at decades low and the world's largest car companies all loosing their shirts, yet is only Obama's fault is laughable. Maybe he should tell us to not worry and if we want to do something for out country, we should continue shopping.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:21 AM   #75
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I just think Obamas plan that he is force feeding ( with the politics of fear) down the throats af the American people is not helping. I get the feeling that he thinks he knows better then everyone what America should be like and we should just sit back and let him handle it. Worse, we should suck it up and take one for the team because he's right. I fear the direction this country is heading.
No one should be complacent and just assume they know what they are doing.
Every indicater proves otherwise.

Amazing to me how we are supposed to give him the benfit of the doubt. Isn't that what we did in regards to Iraq and Bush.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:49 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Theres more mindless droning on in this forum about how Obamas solely responsible for the decline in the markets than I have seen anywhere else. The theory that with whole world in a deep recession, one man words are responsible for moving the market each day is laughable. You have the world's largest insurer needing to borrow more $bill b/c their demise would wreck havoc on the insur. industry, the world's biggest corp. with a stock price at decades low and the world's largest car companies all loosing their shirts, yet is only Obama's fault is laughable. Maybe he should tell us to not worry and if we want to do something for out country, we should continue shopping.
a LOT of brillaint people are agreeing with the mindless droning. I dont expect you will believe us, after all we have a law professor and junior senator leading the worlds economy. So above, I included the news article that the marked moved UP over 200 points when Bernanke spoke, yet you thinks it laughable that the presidents plans DONT move the market? WHo is mindless?

BTW, Paul, how do you like all the earmarks in the new budget? I guess its just another promise broken in the last month.

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Old 03-04-2009, 08:54 AM   #77
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a LOT of brillaint people are agreeing with the mindless droning. I dont expect you will believe us, after all we have a law professor and junior senator leading the worlds economy. BTW, Paul, how do you like all the earmarks in the new budget? I guess its just another promise broken in the last month.
All the ear marks are Bush's fault. That's their story, I'm not kidding
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:30 AM   #78
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You're right -
The majority leader dismissed a reporter's question on whether the $410 billion spending bill for the rest of this year is becoming an "embarrassment" to Obama, and reiterated Obama's argument that the package is "last year's business."

Durrrr, as a mindless drone, makes sense to me durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Old 03-04-2009, 09:43 AM   #79
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You're right -
The majority leader dismissed a reporter's question on whether the $410 billion spending bill for the rest of this year is becoming an "embarrassment" to Obama, and reiterated Obama's argument that the package is "last year's business."

Durrrr, as a mindless drone, makes sense to me durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
NO THAT IS WASHINGTON AS USUAL, NO CHANGE
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:59 AM   #80
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So what did he say today that caused the market to go up? and if it goes down this afternoon, is it b/c he said something during the morning? And the market movement has nothing to do w/the unemployement report coming out (for example)? Isn't the movement of the market a combination of x000s of things including whether you and I buy stock this afternoon.

I like that the earmarks are much less than past admins. but they need to be eliminated. An aquarium in KY is a good thing and promotes employment and tourism, etc. but I shouldn't have to pay for it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:04 AM   #81
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So what did he say today that caused the market to go up? and if it goes down this afternoon, is it b/c he said something during the morning? And the market movement has nothing to do w/the unemployement report coming out (for example)? Isn't the movement of the market a combination of x000s of things including whether you and I buy stock this afternoon.

I like that the earmarks are much less than past admins. but they need to be eliminated. An aquarium in KY is a good thing and promotes employment and tourism, etc. but I shouldn't have to pay for it.
It's not what he say's, it's the moves that he and Pelosi have made, they are not helping the recovery, they are hurting it. I don't blame Obama for the depression we are in. I do blame him for pushing a socialist agenda at a time when we can least afford it.

He said NO earmarks. He's a lier
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:01 PM   #82
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Total estimated earnings for 2009 for every worker in US $8 trillion

Estimated Fed budget 3.6 Trillion or 45% of TOTAL EARNINGS no wonder the Porkulus isn't working.......... Once we pay State and Local taxes there won't be enough left to buy groceries.....

“It’s not up to the courts to invent new minorities that get special protections,” Antonin Scalia
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:43 PM   #83
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I mentioned this in another post. The Market's daily movement is a horrible gauge when judging anything. Daily moves are so emotionally driven, it's pathetic. Things like GDP, Consumer Spending and the such are better markers, just that we don't get to the second updates on those everyday.

People are making tons of money on the market right now. The issue is that conventional wisdom of buy and hold is not beneficial at the moment. People are shorting stocks and buy/selling in the same day or within 2 days. I think the Market is horribly undervalued. GE under $10, Intel under $15, J&J under $50.

Like I said in my other post, I have a lot of time until retirement. The market is already undervalued and I hope people continue to be emotional about it and allow the market to dip below 6000. My accountant gave me a hard time for not investing in an IRA 2 years ago and I told her back then that there was no way in hell I was investing in that market. The warning signs of the current market have been available for some time now, people losing their shirts just weren't paying attention or researching the right areas.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:47 PM   #84
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It's not what he say's, it's the moves that he and Pelosi have made, they are not helping the recovery, they are hurting it. I don't blame Obama for the depression we are in. I do blame him for pushing a socialist agenda at a time when we can least afford it.

He said NO earmarks. He's a lier
If you're talking about the budget, good luck getting Congress to pass anything without earmarks. Both sides of the aisle refuse to pass anything unless they get something out of it. Obama has pleaded with Congress to minimize the earmarks.

Then you get comments like this: "House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer declared Tuesday that Congress, not President Obama, will decide whether to put more limits on earmarks in upcoming spending bills." -CNN
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:37 PM   #85
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If you're talking about the budget, good luck getting Congress to pass anything without earmarks. Both sides of the aisle refuse to pass anything unless they get something out of it. Obama has pleaded with Congress to minimize the earmarks.

Then you get comments like this: "House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer declared Tuesday that Congress, not President Obama, will decide whether to put more limits on earmarks in upcoming spending bills." -CNN
Well then, now will be the time to use the promised line item veto.

" Choose Life "
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:39 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
I mentioned this in another post. The Market's daily movement is a horrible gauge when judging anything. Daily moves are so emotionally driven, it's pathetic. Things like GDP, Consumer Spending and the such are better markers, just that we don't get to the second updates on those everyday.

People are making tons of money on the market right now. The issue is that conventional wisdom of buy and hold is not beneficial at the moment. People are shorting stocks and buy/selling in the same day or within 2 days. I think the Market is horribly undervalued. GE under $10, Intel under $15, J&J under $50.

Like I said in my other post, I have a lot of time until retirement. The market is already undervalued and I hope people continue to be emotional about it and allow the market to dip below 6000. My accountant gave me a hard time for not investing in an IRA 2 years ago and I told her back then that there was no way in hell I was investing in that market. The warning signs of the current market have been available for some time now, people losing their shirts just weren't paying attention or researching the right areas.
Most peoples savings are tied up in the stock market, retirement is one thing but remember that states and feds hopped on the 529 bandwagon and a lot of kids education money is tied up in the market. Also, many companies budget to the stock market as a benchmark. Stock NAVs drive a lot of revenue for investment products for advisors and investment managers (not the evil people) as a result of market declines, many firms will need to further cut employees in order to meet their budgets. There are many. many. many mutual fund companies that employee hundreds of thousands of people in customre service, IT and other areas. Stock prices also drive the net worth of a company and gives them the equity to borrow. Dont underestimate the impact of the stock market. For many, it is the primary source of savings.

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Old 03-06-2009, 11:06 AM   #87
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A couple of things: Since the federal budget year starts on 10/ 1, the "current" budget is in fact from the last congress. It's interesting to note that many on both sides of the aisle are calling for the admin. to not sign this budget because of earmarks. The problem is that if the budget is rejected and it goes back to congress the fed. government will not have funds available to keep the govenment running unless there is a tempory funding measure passed. While some may say it's a good thing ...realistically it is not. Line item veto seems like a solution but congress still has to be on board.
Secondly, while everyone is wondering why the stimulus pkg. is having no effect, the $$ in fact is just becoming available. In the housing industry, we're just seeing the "grearing up" for mortgage foreclosure relief, etc. There was a good program on the evening news about construction industry hires in anticipation of the release of infrastructure work, etc. While I'm not a big fan of bailouts to mismanaged companies, I do think the stimulus bill will have a positive impact once "shovel ready" projects start .
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:58 AM   #88
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Sw - we're wondering why the "promise" of the stimulus bill is not impacting the stock market in a positive way. For example, if a company has a press release that they may have a breakthrough new product, the stock usually goes up quickly. even though there is no product ready for market or no guarantee the product will sell. You would think that the stimulus plan would have a similar impact however I believe investors are viewing this as negative news.

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Old 03-06-2009, 12:38 PM   #89
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And who was is in control of the Congress in 08? And who will sign the Bill?
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:11 PM   #90
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RIJ - I tend to agree with folks that feel the market is not the best indicator due to the volatile nature but I am by no means an expert. A good piece on the tube the other day about how testoserone levels of test subjects rose sharply during market trading..I think the assumption was women make better long term decisions men no so good in long term planning.
Buck - I think the congressional mix was very close and the earmark's are not restricted to one party. I agree; don't sign the budget..go for a quick fix to keep the gov. in business and rework the 09 budget.
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