Article on Stripers Forever plan to make striped bass a game fish

[Fisherwoman]

Ok I gotta jump in here for a minute, 1st of all as a charter boat you have to carry a federal permit on you boat which covers all ground fish and striped Bass and bluefish, we have to send them in a slip for every trip we do and the count of every fish we catch and wether they are kept or released. So as for the charter fleet they know exactly how many fish we are catchihng. We also have to carry a commerical permit as well if we want to commerical fish for striped bass. Those permits also require documentation for every fish you keep and sell.

ALways remember that just because a person owns a charter boat does not mean he is catching and KEEPING ever fish that comes to the boat, most of our clients only want 1 fish to take home and alot of them just want them released, we are a means for fisherman to get out on the water and fish for what they love, no different that a shore fisherman who does not own a boat and can pay a fee to get offshore.

What amazes me in this whole argument over an over again of recreational Striped Bass anglers against commercial striped bass fisherman. The biggest killer of Striped Bass biomass is BYCATCH from draggers and longliners.

They can kill thousands and thousands of pounds a day of multiple species of fish including ALOT of striped bass because they are out in the zone that these fish are hanging around like Stellwagon Bank,
Even though they can not put there equipment on the bank they can still put it all around it. and the real issue with the bycatch is IT IS NOT COUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Millions of pound of fish killed every year and just thrown back in the water and NOT COUNTED

This back and forth argument between recreational anglers and commercial rod and reel anglers is really getting old.
The difference between recreation anglers is this, they can keep 2 fish per day over 28 inches.

Rod and reel commercial fisherman can keep Striped Bass OVER 34inchs and UP !! 30 bass a day, 3 days a week, and 5 fish per day on sunday. Now I just want to say that there are a ton of commercial fisherman that we know out on the water around Boston harbor and they are lucky if they total 15 commercial fish in a WEEK.

The thing that is different with this type of commercial rod and reel fishing is They know exactly how big they have to be and if not they go back alive hopefully, also the only thing they catch are striped bass or bluefish, unless you have a ton of dog fish around.

SO at least they are not killing fish like long lining and gill netting as they do not check their gear everyday, as well as draggers that crush the bycatch of everything that comes on board. then it is sent back over dead, BUT NOT COUNTED, that is one of the things that need to change.

the other issue is forage for the fish, if we want these bass back in inshore waters than they need food to eat, if there is no bait there are no bass, simple logic, we saw it happen last year in the harbor when they took almost all of the pogies out of the inner harbor.

So stop bitchen and try and get involved like alot of the rest of us who are writing letters, and making phone call to congressman and getting involed to make this a better fisherie, not just bitchin about who does what and we have no fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the long rant but had to get that out of my system, OK carry on!!!

[stiff tip]

everthing you said . but way too much finger pointing..quick story...out of chatham early season mid 90s we would pull the gill nets and have 100s of lbs on each hall as bycatch ,only to toss um over to float away, cause we cant sell them. who's fault ???

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fisherwoman

Ok I gotta jump in here for a minute, 1st of all as a charter boat you have to carry a federal permit on you boat which covers all ground fish and striped Bass and bluefish, we have to send them in a slip for every trip we do and the count of every fish we catch and wether they are kept or released. So as for the charter fleet they know exactly how many fish we are catchihng. We also have to carry a commerical permit as well if we want to commerical fish for striped bass. Those permits also require documentation for every fish you keep and sell.

This is presuming that everyone appropriately reports their catch. How many people do you know that travel the speed limit? The risks of getting caught seem about the same.

This back and forth argument between recreational anglers and commercial rod and reel anglers is really getting old.
The difference between recreation anglers is this, they can keep 2 fish per day over 28 inches.

Rod and reel commercial fisherman can keep Striped Bass OVER 34inchs and UP !! 30 bass a day, 3 days a week, and 5 fish per day on sunday. Now I just want to say that there are a ton of commercial fisherman that we know out on the water around Boston harbor and they are lucky if they total 15 commercial fish in a WEEK.

True, but commercial fishermen don't get paid by the fish, they're paid by the pound so with bag limits, they target the biggest, oldest, healthiest fish. That removes those healthy 20+ year olds from the gene pool. Reports have been released that the Striped Bass are getting thinner relative to size, and point to these activities as a possible cause.

Reports around Boston Harbor seem to have been weak (maybe due to overfishing???) so it's no wonder people may have issues. Come on out to the Race and you'll see dozens of boats often maxing out every trip, it's no big secret.

the other issue is forage for the fish, if we want these bass back in inshore waters than they need food to eat, if there is no bait there are no bass, simple logic, we saw it happen last year in the harbor when they took almost all of the pogies out of the inner harbor.

Agreed. But, the seals would need to be dealt with as well.

[Fisherwoman]

JohnnyD< not disagreeing that some people may not report, but if they get caught not turning in reports every month, they get a notice on non-compliance, which will revoke their permits. So they have to at least report something, if they get boarded, they better have all their permits in check as i have been boarded several time and they have gone thru to make sure they have it all in check.

As far as fish getting skinnier and that being the cause, way off base, the bass we have caught over the past 5-6 years have been healthier and heavier than any bass we have seen in a long time, weight VS lenght by far,and that is because of the pogies which are finally getting up this far north as they are the most nutrishes meal a bass can have.

Reports around Boston have nothing to do with overfishing, the fish need food and when it is removed the bass will go elsewhere to find it. There are more sand eels than ever that surround the race, and it is one forage of species we just don't get alot of in the harbor, that is why alot of bass get caught at the race and is why the bass where on the bank last year, there was a TON of sand eels to eat.

ONe fact you can not argue about is if the gillnetters had not come in last year and netted all the pogies up in the inside of Boston harbor as well as north harbors from Boston We would have had a much better season a great fall run no doubt about it.

As far as commerical catch only being by weight, an average 34 inch fish will go around 15 lbs to a max of 18 lbs and yes they are breeding fish, but the issue with fish right now is not the bigger bass my friend it is the smaller bass that are coming up short. So how can you blame a commercial guy for that!!! Yes they are breeder fish but at least they have had a chance to bread unlike a recreational fish at 28 inches.

Yes Seals need to be delbt with but in the harbor you can count on 1 hand how many seals are around, unlike the cape.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Fisherwoman

JohnnyD< not disagreeing that some people may not report, but if they get caught not turning in reports every month, they get a notice on non-compliance, which will revoke their permits. So they have to at least report something, if they get boarded, they better have all their permits in check as i have been boarded several time and they have gone thru to make sure they have it all in check.

Exactly my point. They just have to report *something*. There isn't any practical method for oversight to confirm accurate reporting. Thus, there's nothing preventing people from reporting 4 fish kept and 8 released when really the boat maxed out.

As far as fish getting skinnier and that being the cause, way off base, the bass we have caught over the past 5-6 years have been healthier and heavier than any bass we have seen in a long time, weight VS lenght by far,and that is because of the pogies which are finally getting up this far north as they are the most nutrishes meal a bass can have.

The above is the biggest issue with the "Fisherman's argument" and can be seen throughout the boards. The whole argument of "Well that's not my experience so it isn't the case." Personally, I caught my first 30# this year, and multiple 30# fish and they were all very fat. On the other hand, a lot of people I've talked to have said they are catching more and more racers. My understanding is that the old adage used to be "50 gets you 50" and I've talked to a few people that have landed 50"+ fish that didn't come close to 50#.

ONe fact you can not argue about is if the gillnetters had not come in last year and netted all the pogies up in the inside of Boston harbor as well as north harbors from Boston We would have had a much better season a great fall run no doubt about it.

Certainly wouldn't argue that the netters are destroying schools and issues with bait are probably the second biggest risk to the striped bass.

As far as commerical catch only being by weight, an average 34 inch fish will go around 15 lbs to a max of 18 lbs and yes they are breeding fish, but the issue with fish right now is not the bigger bass my friend it is the smaller bass that are coming up short. So how can you blame a commercial guy for that!!! Yes they are breeder fish but at least they have had a chance to bread unlike a recreational fish at 28 inches.

Yes Seals need to be delbt with but in the harbor you can count on 1 hand how many seals are around, unlike the cape.

How is the issue with smaller fish? According to the latest reports, the biomass of smaller fish is increasing.

I don't buy the "at least they've had a chance to breed" argument. The latest stock assessment has demonstrated that the biomass of fish over 8 years old is way down. How could that be? Because the biggest, healthiest fish are the ones being targeted. The latest assessment reports are also showing that the commercial take could be very understated. So, the commercial take is over 50% and commercials tend to target the biggest, healthiest fish. Seems like a good cause for the biomass of 8+ year old fish to be going down.

There's also no denying that as you target bigger fish, you're killing a significantly higher percentage of breeder females.

[Mr. Sandman]

This is why the gamefish deal is the best way to go...it cuts thru all the BS and PROTECTS what needs protecting...the fish. Without added enforcement! The best thing we could do is take DMF ( and MSBA) out of the loop.... IMO They have been part of the problem not the solution. The only thing they are protecting is the status quo. At least C&R do little harm to the resource but still put a billion into the economy to catch and release them. As a group, Comm's have never shown much in the way of conservation for bass ever yet are the most vocal group and have the most influence over regulators.

It is largely a C&R fishery now. Even on Charter boats. I don't see many boats making 2 trips a day 6 days a week taking limits...haven't seen that in many years. Current reports are already suggesting that comm take / rec take was badly estimated.

Regardless of "who's at fault"...WHY ARE WE NOT PROTECTING THE FISH TODAY? Lets stop protecting the fishermen and protect the fish.

I don't care who's fault it is, we need to take ALL pressure off the fish, NOW, , improve the forage, habitat and water quality. End of story. Lets end this "user group" crap and who has the "right" to take the fish, it is sickening.

[Fisherwoman]

JonhnyD, not trying to argue the points with you. WE can all look at things in a different way depending on who we fish with, and, where we fish, and who catches what.

I do not think it is worthwhile for charter captains to falsify reports as there is no limit on what they catch EXCEPT for how many people are on board and yes I agree some of them probably are falsely reporting. Which is just as bad as people killing short fish or people taking more fish that 2 a piece, as well as commercials taking more than they are allowed.

I, like you, do not agree with it and do not do it. But there are a good percentage of charter guys out there that do do the right thing as well as recreational fisherman, because we love what we do and want it to be here for our children.

As far as the racer fish, not sure if you boat fish or only shore fish, but in all of my years of fishing for striped bass, shore and boat, I have never seen them more healthy than we are seeing them in the past several years. That is of course if there is nothing wrong with the fish. ie we had one big bass probably 47 inches weigh in around 28 lbs because a seal took a chunk out of her. But having those big baits around has made them alot bigger and healthier than they used to be between gloucester and the cape.

The little fish may be up some where but not in our area, and I am referring to gloucester to the Cape. We used to have very few big bass around and only smaller fish, up to maybe 40 inches. But mostly schoolie bass. All we did when we first started chartering was light tackle as the fish we all over the surface every day, all you had to do was look for the birds and splashing fish and you were all set.

That has changed from Boston harbor over the past 5-6 years and I hear it alot from all the recreational anglers as well, I have seen the whole fleet of light tackle charter guys in Boston Harbor have to change their fishing ways to tube and worm or try and snag live bait because they can not find those fish anymore.

We fish the cape in the spring when the 1st fish start to show and fish down there for about a month, the numbers of small fish showing up are way off!!!
You used to be able to go down there and some days catch a 100 fish a piece on light tacke and barbed hooked shads, now you do not even come close to those numbers, WHY.

I can not argue for other places where people are seeing diffent things in the fisheries because I do not fish those areas, I am just going by what we and alot of other friends of ours have experienced for years. Just like you say you hear alot of the bass are racers or that is what you have heard!!!

Where do the numbers come from for the science of Biomass, from the Chesapeak bay area??? I know they do counts there every year.
But where else are they counting all the little fish. Do you know? because I do not!!! I just hear about the numbers not how they came about them so how do any of us know what is true and what is not true just because someone says it is, especially when politics are involved in the desicions of who gets what.

One of the biggest problems we have with the fishery are lack of forage and lack of the same size and bag limits down the whole east coast. As well as BYCATCH not being COUNTED!!!

Yes JohnnyD, I agree with alot of your points as well I am just telling they way I have seen if for a very long time thats all.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

Captmike,who says seals don't target fish over 2 pounds?maybe the seals i see with 15 to 20 lb bass in there mouths are only playing with them.i can't tell you how many 5 to 10lb bluefish i have lost to seals in the last 5 years.not to mention bigger bass.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

Captmike,who says seals don't target fish over 2 pounds?maybe the seals i see with 15 to 20 lb bass in there mouths are only playing with them.i can't tell you how many 5 to 10lb bluefish i have lost to seals in the last 5 years.not to mention bigger bass.

There's a reason seals follow fishermen up and down the beach.

Also, regardless of the seals targeting the bass or not, those super-colonies like on Monomoy eat hundreds of tons of baitfish every day. As such, hundreds of tons of prey that isn't available for stripers and bluefish.