Burning the Koran

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

makes sense. Also, how does Spence's reply factor into all the Muslim unrest in the rest of the world you posted? I love the Sweden one. Those swedes are an intolerant bunch. yes, its everyones fault. They have a right to their actions.

I think Europe shares a lot of the blame for their issues with Islam, which of course, have their roots in history along with a general intolerance of outsiders in general.

For instance the flap last year in Switzerland to constitutionally ban the construction of minarets was driven by the Right wing through a campaign of fear similar to what we've seen here at home. France has had many issues with Islam, as they've never dealt with the assimilation of north African colonies. Sweeden's problems probably have more to do with the collapse of the welfare state more than anything else...and ABBA.

Of course, America is (and is) supposed to be different. We should be setting the standard rather than using the failure of others as an excuse for average or bad behavior.

It won't surprise me at all if we see actual legislation being proposed to limit the "spread" of Islam in the US just as they already have in Europe. The seeds have already been planted...

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I think Europe shares a lot of the blame for their issues with Islam, which of course, have their roots in history along with a general intolerance of outsiders in general.

For instance the flap last year in Switzerland to constitutionally ban the construction of minarets was driven by the Right wing through a campaign of fear similar to what we've seen here at home. France has had many issues with Islam, as they've never dealt with the assimilation of north African colonies. Sweeden's problems probably have more to do with the collapse of the welfare state more than anything else...and ABBA.

Of course, America is (and is) supposed to be different. We should be setting the standard rather than using the failure of others as an excuse for average or bad behavior.

It won't surprise me at all if we see actual legislation being proposed to limit the "spread" of Islam in the US just as they already have in Europe. The seeds have already been planted...

-spence

see..it's not Islam... it's everyone else that makes them mad and want to burn things and kill people
hey Spence, you do know that in Europe the right is really the left, right?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

see..it's not Islam... it's everyone else that makes them mad and want to burn things and kill people
hey Spence, you do know that in Europe the right is really the left, right?

Well, that's not at all what I said. Perhaps that's your problem...understanding that another viewpoint exists isn't an endorsement.

And no, the left in the EU isn't the reverse of our Right. You're just confusing parliamentary parties in the UK.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, that's not at all what I said. Perhaps that's your problem...understanding that another viewpoint exists isn't an endorsement.

-spence

didn't say it was an endorsement...more like a very weak defense and shifting blame...it's not Islam..it is Europe's inability to embrace Islam and unwillingness to support the spread of Islam with never ending social welfare programmes...if only they were more tolerant in Europe

Caldwell: There is no welfare state on the scale of that in Europe, and I think welfare states are a bad fit for large-scale immigration. In an ethnically diverse society, people are less familiar with each other, and they are correspondingly less willing to pay taxes for social benefits. Two-thirds of the imams in France are on welfare. There is nothing wrong with being an imam. But I don't think the French are very happy about paying what is effectively a state subsidy for religion in that way.

Interview conducted by Mathieu von Rohr

pretty good interview from der spiegel
Christopher Caldwell on Muslim Integration: 'It's Much Better If Things Are Discussed Openly' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

[Nebe]

i destroyed mine this morning..

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

didn't say it was an endorsement...more like a very weak defense and shifting blame...it's not Islam..it is Europe's inability to embrace Islam and unwillingness to support the spread of Islam with never ending social welfare programmes...

You were assuming culpability, I was simply assessing the situation. A lot of Islamic immigration to the EU is a result of colonialism which gives them legal rights to government services. Many European countries have well established welfare systems and many Europeans have a history of intolerance to outsiders.

I don't think any of this is really debatable, it all adds to the formula and little of it is driven by the Muslims themselves...

Or are you asserting that European actions over the past two centuries haven't contributed to the situation?

Caldwell: There is no welfare state on the scale of that in Europe, and I think welfare states are a bad fit for large-scale immigration. In an ethnically diverse society, people are less familiar with each other, and they are correspondingly less willing to pay taxes for social benefits. Two-thirds of the imams in France are on welfare. There is nothing wrong with being an imam. But I don't think the French are very happy about paying what is effectively a state subsidy for religion in that way.

I'd generally agree with this, but also note that it's the Francophiles and not the Imams really in charge of future French policy.

-spence