The Apology Tour continues

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Circular logic.


More circular logic.


Coddling al Qaeda? Not many left after all those drone strikes the past 3 years. I thought we were talking about the Taliban here...

As for destroying them before they build up their capabilities, we've been trying to do that for the past 10 years.


Why aren't you jumping on Gen. Allen who quickly came out and apologized for the incident as well?

And I don't believe Obama said anyone would be punished, he said they would be held accountable. Big difference here. Accountability could be as simple as retraining on how to handle religious manuscripts.


We should probably just nuke the entire country then.


No, we need to depressurize the incident, work to ensure better security and continue with the mission.


I think the disconnect is we see this war in different phases. You believe we should be engaging the Taliban in an effort to eliminate them.

Obama and our military leadership are in a different place. They've recognized that we're not going to eliminate the Taliban through force alone, and that a combined military/political end game needs to be reached...otherwise we continue to stalemate while the budget runs dry and troops continue to die.

-spence

"Circular logic."

Spence, if I say that murderers (and their victims) deserve justice instead of apologies to the murderers, please explain why you dismiss that as "circular logic". And be specific please, so that I understand.

"Coddling al Qaeda? Not many left after all those drone strikes the past 3 years."

You got me. In this case, Obama waqs, in my opinion, coddling the murderers. Whether they are Taliban or Al Queda, i don't know.

"We should probably just nuke the entire country then."

I'm confused Spence. I said that muslims who would indiscriminately kill innocent westerners, simply because someone else accidentally burned a Koran, need to be killed. You respond by saying we should nuke the whole country? That necessarily means that you think all of them are sociopaths? That doesn't seem very liberal, does it?

"we need to depressurize the incident"

I don't see how failing to punish the guilty does anything, other than maximizing the chances that they will live to kill another innocent victim.

"They've recognized that we're not going to eliminate the Taliban through force alone"

Not once, ever, have I said that we can with with military force alone. I just don't see how overlooking the slaughter of innocent bystanders, helps anyone except the wicked. But that concept, moral relativism, is one of the pillars of liberalism. That, and lack of responsibility or accountability for one's actions.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, if I say that murderers (and their victims) deserve justice instead of apologies to the murderers, please explain why you dismiss that as "circular logic". And be specific please, so that I understand.

Your assertion was that Obama was apologizing to the perpetrators of the crimes. This isn't backed by the facts nor is it even believable...unless you're trying to score political points.

You got me. In this case, Obama waqs, in my opinion, coddling the murderers. Whether they are Taliban or Al Queda, i don't know.

The Taliban took credit for the attack. Granted they're not the most trustworthy source.

I'm confused Spence. I said that muslims who would indiscriminately kill innocent westerners, simply because someone else accidentally burned a Koran, need to be killed. You respond by saying we should nuke the whole country? That necessarily means that you think all of them are sociopaths? That doesn't seem very liberal, does it?

I think a reasoned person would understand that many who commit violence, hell...even terrorism...aren't all crazy. If you look at it as a mental thing you risk ignoring root causes.

I remember a documentary on Afghanistan some years back when the journalist was remarking at even young kids getting involved in the violence. The Afghan kind of smiled and said, yea, here it's kind of like a bad habit. This doesn't mean they're crazy...it just means we need to consider who we're dealing with.

I don't see how failing to punish the guilty does anything, other than maximizing the chances that they will live to kill another innocent victim.

Perhaps the answer is so obvious you don't see it? Are the Afghan Police not working to capture the perpetrator?

Not once, ever, have I said that we can with with military force alone. I just don't see how overlooking the slaughter of innocent bystanders, helps anyone except the wicked. But that concept, moral relativism, is one of the pillars of liberalism. That, and lack of responsibility or accountability for one's actions.

This isn't a case of moral relativism, rather it's a case of reality. The killer and accomplices should be held to account. The Taliban where they seek to fight Americans or jeopardize our mission should be dealt with as we can...

But the simple fact is that we're not in a black and white situation. It seems like General Allen understands this.

Do you?

-spence