Welcome to 2019, when a congresswoman says “we’re going to impeach the mother——er.”

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Neither could I
Willie Horton is a great example of fear politics
Bad things happen in a free country that’s one of the chances we take
We have the highest % of people in prison in the world, claim to be the bastion of freedom and have the highest recidivism.
Give me a rational explanation for that.
As an aside, Immigrants are a insignificant point in that equation.
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bad things happen. but if a bad thing happens because
an idiotliberal politician decides to give weekend passes to sociopaths who hurt people, than thatnliberal politician should have to
answer for that. you disagree? it’s wrong to hold people, at least liberals, accountable?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

bad things happen. but if a bad thing happens because
an idiotliberal politician decides to give weekend passes to sociopaths who hurt people, than thatnliberal politician should have to
answer for that. you disagree? it’s wrong to hold people, at least liberals, accountable?
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Perhaps all people who might possibly commit a crime should be imprisoned, then you could feel safe.
Unless you were one of the people so judged
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps all people who might possibly commit a crime should be imprisoned, then you could feel safe.
Unless you were one of the people so judged
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willie horton wasn’t in prison for something he
might do. your hypothetical is way off. as usual, you dodged
my question. if a liberal politician advocates for policies which hurt innocent people, why is it racist fear mongering to hold him accountable?

so when the gop points out what willie horton actually did, that’s playing to racial fears. but when the democrats tried to tell us that clarence thomas can’t be trusted around women, with all
kinds of
evidence that he didn’t do anything wrong, that’s ok.

makes all kinds of sense pete. you’re blind. i could say 2+2=4, you’d immediately say i’m wrong.
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[Jim in CT]

also pete, why wasn’t your post a classic example of whataboutism? all you did, was whataboutism?

i don’t have a problem with pointing to past examples to try to prove hypocrisy. your side calls it whataboutism when my side does it, but it’s brilliant when you do it.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

also pete, why wasn’t your post a classic example of whataboutism? all you did, was whataboutism?

i don’t have a problem with pointing to past examples to try to prove hypocrisy. your side calls it whataboutism when my side does it, but it’s brilliant when you do it.
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As you have no idea what side I’m on but call me a liberal because I’m very +++ anti Trump
It absolutely is whataboutism though in Trump’s case that would be citing one case to justify Trumps many transgressions
In this case both parties have pulled this BS for years and justified it by saying their position is the one that will save us
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[Jim in CT]

pete do you even know the facts? Horton was sentenced to life without parole for
murder. Some liberal idiot thought he was a good candidate for a weekend furlough program where released inmates promise that they’ll come back. well he didn’t, and while out, he raped somebody. that’s what happened, that’s exactly what happened.

do you disagree that people who think it’s a good idea to let murderers out for the weekend on the honor system, deserve criticism?

put down the kool aid, and think rationally for two seconds. just two seconds.

you look at the willie horton situation, and you aren’t bothered that a murderer was able to get a weekend pass, but you’re bothered that republicans used the event to club Dukakis with?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete do you even know the facts? Horton was sentenced to life without parole for
murder. Some liberal idiot thought he was a good candidate for a weekend furlough program where released inmates promise that they’ll come back. well he didn’t, and while out, he raped somebody. that’s what happened, that’s exactly what happened.

do you disagree that people who think it’s a good idea to let murderers out for the weekend on the honor system, deserve criticism?

put down the kool aid, and think rationally for two seconds. just two seconds.

you look at the willie horton situation, and you aren’t bothered that a murderer was able to get a weekend pass, but you’re bothered that republicans used the event to club Dukakis with?
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Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
Under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two prisoners murdered people while out on furlough. When critics challenged the program, Reagan defended it with a vehemence that seems impossible to fathom today. “More than 20,000 already have these passes,” he said after the first murder, “and this was the only case of this kind, the only murder.” California was “leading the nation in rehabilitation,” he said. “Obviously you can't be perfect.”
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
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Imagine what things would look like if the GOP actually embodied RR today.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Imagine what things would look like if the GOP actually embodied RR today.
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A vague, baseless, unsubstantiated insult, from you, towards republicans? Get outa here...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A vague, baseless, unsubstantiated insult, from you, towards republicans? Get outa here...

How is that an insult? I used to think republicans respected RR.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
Under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two prisoners murdered people while out on furlough. When critics challenged the program, Reagan defended it with a vehemence that seems impossible to fathom today. “More than 20,000 already have these passes,” he said after the first murder, “and this was the only case of this kind, the only murder.” California was “leading the nation in rehabilitation,” he said. “Obviously you can't be perfect.”
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Were the people that Reagan let out, previously sentenced to life without parole for murder? If so, guess what? He deserved to be criticized for that.

I agree you cant be perfect, and I agree we need to be humane the way we treat prisoners. But letting brutal murderers out for a weekend on the honor system? I'm sorry, you're a lunatic if you think that's a good idea.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were the people that Reagan let out, previously sentenced to life without parole for murder? If so, guess what? He deserved to be criticized for that.

I agree you cant be perfect, and I agree we need to be humane the way we treat prisoners. But letting brutal murderers out for a weekend on the honor system? I'm sorry, you're a lunatic if you think that's a good idea.

Here’s the paragraph before the one I previously quoted
I n the mid- to late-80s, all 50 states had furlough programs. These passes allowed inmates to leave the prison for periods of time ranging from a few hours to several weeks, depending on their sentence and their behavior in prison; while in the community, they could visit family, look for work, or participate in religious activities. Almost 10 percent of state and federal prisoners received a furlough in 1987. Nationally, murderers served an average of eight years before they were paroled or commuted, so furloughs were, in the toolkit of a previous generation, an uncontroversial proposition. They offered incentives for good behavior behind bars and a good way for inmates to reacclimate to the life they would almost certainly return to outside of prison. “Use of furloughs for prisoners in the U.S. is widespread, successful and relatively problem free,” the editor of a magazine for corrections professionals told the New York Times in 1988.

When we talked to him in his office at Northeastern University, where he is a professor of politics, Dukakis said furloughs were a sensible means of protecting public safety.


MICHAEL DUKAKIS
“One of the values of a furlough program,
0:00
Dukakis points out that one of the most liberal furlough programs at the time was the one in the federal prison system under President Reagan and Vice President Bush. And under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here’s the paragraph before the one I previously quoted
I n the mid- to late-80s, all 50 states had furlough programs. These passes allowed inmates to leave the prison for periods of time ranging from a few hours to several weeks, depending on their sentence and their behavior in prison; while in the community, they could visit family, look for work, or participate in religious activities. Almost 10 percent of state and federal prisoners received a furlough in 1987. Nationally, murderers served an average of eight years before they were paroled or commuted, so furloughs were, in the toolkit of a previous generation, an uncontroversial proposition. They offered incentives for good behavior behind bars and a good way for inmates to reacclimate to the life they would almost certainly return to outside of prison. “Use of furloughs for prisoners in the U.S. is widespread, successful and relatively problem free,” the editor of a magazine for corrections professionals told the New York Times in 1988.

When we talked to him in his office at Northeastern University, where he is a professor of politics, Dukakis said furloughs were a sensible means of protecting public safety.


MICHAEL DUKAKIS
“One of the values of a furlough program,
0:00
Dukakis points out that one of the most liberal furlough programs at the time was the one in the federal prison system under President Reagan and Vice President Bush. And under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two
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as always, you chose not to answer my question. Horton was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. that sentence is reserved for the most brutal of murderers ( few murderers get that sentence). yet he was given a weekend pass, as long as he gave his word that he’d come back on sunday afternoon. never occurred to anyone that he might lie about that.

i will ask again, please let me know if you don’t understand the question...are you really ok with letting inmates walk out for the weekend unsupervised, when they have been convicted of murder and sentenced to life without possibility of parole.

we have to draw the line somewhere about who gets furloughed, and no one has a crystal ball, so good faith mistakes will be made. i get that. but extending this privilege to people sentenced to life without parole, is asinine. can you tell us if reagan’s program did that? not all
murderers are equal. very few get sentenced to life without parole, that is reserved for the worst of the worst.
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[Duke41]

Wow thanks for all the points and counter points my mind has been changed so glad for all the posts thanks everyone. Said no one ever.

[bart]

Good for her. If Trump were to say the same his constituents would erupt in applause, commending him him for not being “politically correct” and for not acting like a traditional politician, which is is why he was ultimately elected. Anyone who supports Trump and is offended by her comments is a hypocrite and most importantly, a true “snowflake.”

As a side note, Its no secret Trump has zero regard for the environment. I’ll never understand how so called “fishermen, conservationists, environmentalists, etc” can support this assclown...someone who is set on ruining the environment that we all enjoy. A truly, irresponsible, embarrassment to the Presidency if there ever was one.

My first and last post in this cesspool of a forum called Politics.
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[Slipknot]

Pete you dodged the question once again like Jim said

Horton had nothing to lose committing rape or any other crime while out of prison on furlough
Life is life
If they tack on more years it is still life

Good thing he did not kill you while he was out free

Get it?

How is it ok? Not some know it all bull about recidivism
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Pete you dodged the question once again like Jim said

Horton had nothing to lose committing rape or any other crime while out of prison on furlough
Life is life
If they tack on more years it is still life

Good thing he did not kill you while he was out free

Get it?

How is it ok? Not some know it all bull about recidivism
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I didn’t dodge it
I said I don’t care
That ad was a political tool.
It is the textbook example of a dog whistle ad and you guys are still responding to it.
80 billion dollars a year
The highest imprisonment per capita in the world by far
10 to 1 compared to most of the G20

That add was around 30 years ago and still prevents criminal justice reform
We are not the safest country in the world, if prison was all we needed to do to be safe we should be

Sorry I’d rather live in a free society than an authoritarian one.
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[Slipknot]

me but I am not in charge

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry I’d rather live in a free society than an authoritarian one.
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'Free' to you, is a place where people convicted of murder and sentenced to life without parole (which pretty much means your concerns about recidivism are moot) should be able to go out for the weekend, as long as they promise to voluntarily come back on Sunday night?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

'Free' to you, is a place where people convicted of murder and sentenced to life without parole (which pretty much means your concerns about recidivism are moot) should be able to go out for the weekend, as long as they promise to voluntarily come back on Sunday night?

No Jim it’s a nation that is not driven by a mistake made more than 30 years ago that has been made into a false issue that makes reasonable criminal justice reform nearly impossible.
That does not mean make the same mistake again, but to be brave enough to take some chances.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No Jim it’s a nation that is not driven by a mistake made more than 30 years ago that has been made into a false issue that makes reasonable criminal justice reform nearly impossible.
That does not mean make the same mistake again, but to be brave enough to take some chances.
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Apparently Trump was brave enough and took some chances and did what you refer to as nearly impossible by signing a prison reform bill just recently.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No Jim it’s a nation that is not driven by a mistake made more than 30 years ago that has been made into a false issue that makes reasonable criminal justice reform nearly impossible.
That does not mean make the same mistake again, but to be brave enough to take some chances.
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Did the Horton mistake happen 30 years before the ad was made? Or was it recent, at the time the ad was made?

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry I’d rather live in a free society than an authoritarian one.
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Ya know Pete,
You are supporting the party that is authoritarian not I.
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[Sea Dangles]

Pete is an odd duck. He thinks he is one step ahead....a real gotcha type.!
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[PaulS]

I'll apologize to all those Republican snowflakes whose virgin ears got upset over this use of the word.
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[Raider Ronnie]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4588094&type=3
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[Sea Dangles]

That tact will not work Jim. It requires honesty.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

That tact will not work Jim. It requires honesty.
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the complete abandonment of honesty, is really something to behold. it’s comoletely deranged.

god help these people
if he gets re elected somehow.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

god help these people
if he gets re elected somehow.
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I didn't vote for him the first time, but I might the second time just to watch the continous Sky Screaming followed by the Exploding Heads. Could be quite entertaining.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I didn't vote for him the first time, but I might the second time just to watch the continous Sky Screaming followed by the Exploding Heads. Could be quite entertaining.

if the democrats can manage to nominate a moderate, like the 1992 version of bill clinton, they win a landslide. if they nominate a polarizing radical like Warren, Sanders, or Booker, it might be close.
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