ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS ASSESSMENT SUMMARY FOR 2013

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

You would need to change Federal law to that. Eliminating the commercial fishery would have effect on management targets.

No you don't. The fishery would still be managed by ASMFC, the meaning of maximum sustainable yield would no longer have an economic connotation, instead it would have a quality context.......that the fishery yield maintain maximum quality for recreational use instead of economic value.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by numbskull

No you don't. The fishery would still be managed by ASMFC, the meaning of maximum sustainable yield would no longer have an economic connotation, instead it would have a quality context.......that the fishery yield maintain maximum quality for recreational use instead of economic value.

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.

Bull, and you know it. As long as a fish has commercial use, "maximum sustainable yield" implies optimizing that use. Indeed the act that created the ASMFC mandates such full stock exploitation.

Which again is the strongest argument to make Striped Bass a game fish.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Bull, and you know it. As long as a fish has commercial use, "maximum sustainable yield" implies optimizing that use. Indeed the act that created the ASMFC mandates such full stock exploitation.

Which again is the strongest argument to make Striped Bass a game fish.

What can I say, except that you are totally wrong? SSBs, ACLs, F, et al are set in numbers of fish or pounds of fish, no dollar or economic value is considered or implied. If striped bass were a game fish up and down the coast, nothing would change unless the lkaw was changed, they would still be managed to produce MSY.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

What can I say, except that you are totally wrong? SSBs, ACLs, F, et al are set in numbers of fish or pounds of fish, no dollar or economic value is considered or implied. If striped bass were a game fish up and down the coast, nothing would change unless the lkaw was changed, they would still be managed to produce MSY.

Duh.

As long as the fishery is manipulated for maximum yield....as it will be when commercial interests are involved....the quality of fishing will suffer.

Obviously if recreational fishermen kill equivalent numbers of fish there is no difference. But that is not what happens. Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Duh.

As long as the fishery is manipulated for maximum yield....as it will be when commercial interests are involved....the quality of fishing will suffer.

Obviously if recreational fishermen kill equivalent numbers of fish there is no difference. But that is not what happens. Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

Numbskull is right , but the ones in charge don't want to hear that.

Striped bass are in trouble, no question about it
keep whackin and stackin and there will continue to be few fish around to have any chance at catching a decent bass

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Duh.

Once a fishery loses economic value it is managed for recreational quality rather than maximum yield and the pressure to kill and keep fish diminishes as does the pressure on the fishery scientists to keep justifying such kill for the economic well being of a small subset of resource users.

Once again totally wrong, all fisheries, by law, must be managed for MSY.

[blue oyster]

I ain't buying there crap 2 poor seasons in a row for me , i'm no sharpie but I put in the time

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Once again totally wrong, all fisheries, by law, must be managed for MSY.

You are hiding behind the ASMFC mandate.
You are hiding behind a commercial concept of maximum "yield" which implies dead fish.

What is the maximum sustainable yield that ensures a quality fishery?
Why are we not fishing to that number?
That number exists just as certainly as the one that is used for a fishery managed for maximum sustainable kill. The numbers are not the same. Someone makes a decision which number to use. That someone is heavily influenced by commercial pressure.

To fix it all we need is an amendment making striped bass a gamefish and stipulating they be fished to a maximum yield that sustains a quality fishery rather than a bare minimum surviving population as we do now.

It is not rocket science, you know it as well as I, which is exactly why you keep obfuscating the issue.

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

There is no "economic connotation" to MSY, MSY is based on the numbers of fish, not their value. Actually the term as contained in the Act is "optimum yield" which NOAA has defined as MSY.

Just to clarify here.

MSY is measured in pounds not numbers of fish

OY absolutely includes financial data as well as stock data