Ocean closed

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But in other situations, the government is allocating more resources to keeping people out of the parks, than it would spend if the parks were open normally. And in the case of the Grand Canyon, the state of Arizona offered to pick up the federal tab to keep the park open during the shutdown. The feds said no thanks.

The only conceivable reason? Obama wants to make this as painful as possible, to generate anger against the GOP. How's that for a guy who claimed to be a post-partisan President.

The other conceivable reason is that it would likely be a violation of federal law.

I'm not sure just because parks are owned by the Government means the taxpayer can access at any time. Parks have rules...

-spence

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't even know what the tea party stands for . Most, if they were honest , would admit they share many of the same values.
Your scared of gay people? I find your wording offensive
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That is pretty out there. Many of them are women. Michelle Bachmann for example, no? Trust me, what they stand for is clear to the great majority of Americans, including most other republican officials who don't necessarily agree, but are afraid for their political careers. See 2010.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by zimmy

That is pretty out there. Many of them are women. Michelle Bachmann for example, no? Trust me, what they stand for is clear to the great majority of Americans, including most other republican officials who don't necessarily agree, but are afraid for their political careers. See 2010.

So you're comfortable calling a successful woman a "tea bagger" Got it.
As far as the rest of what you said , I'm all ears.... What do they stand for that you disagree with ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

So you're comfortable calling a successful woman a "tea bagger" Got it.
As far as the rest of what you said , I'm all ears.... What do they stand for that you disagree with ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Come on Buck, even you have to admit she's totally crazy.

-spence

[DZ]

Well, if this ain't a slap in the face. National Mall is closed unless you go to this:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ally-closed-n/

This administration really knows how to stick it to you.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by buckman

So you're comfortable calling a successful woman a "tea bagger" Got it.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Tea party owns it and started it with "tea bag a lib". Sorry it offends you

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't even know what the tea party stands for .Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Unfortunately...I don't even think the Tea party knows what it stands for......3 different Sites and 3 different definitions of what they stand for....even Jims listing is different from what the 3 websites say...

http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/about/

http://www.teapartyexpress.org/mission

[Nebe]

Rotfl!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

To me the tea party is full of a bunch of middle class blue collar small business owners who think that they are a hell of a lot wealthier than they really are and who think that they are the ones who are being screwed by government and it's hand outs to the poor. But in reality they are being #^&#^&#^&#^&ed sideways by the 1% who actually run this country and who are using the tea party as a tool to distract from the real problem. The big lie.
The big problem is that corporate America has everything made over seas. Millions of Americans manufacturing jobs are gone. They need help and when they go to the government looking for help, they are looked at by a lot of Americans as freeloaders.
Address the main problem. Our back bone has been broken.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Come on Buck, even you have to admit she's totally crazy.

-spence

I've married worse lol
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

I've married worse lol
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Well, that explains a lot

[Fly Rod]

Heard recently today that clammers in Revere were told by feds to stop digging....clammers went to the city and asked about that ...city says feds have no jurisdiction between high and low water mark

I know Spence knows the answer...true or false Spence?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by buckman

I've married worse lol
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Now I am getting back out of this forum while I can.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Heard recently today that clammers in Revere were told by feds to stop digging....clammers went to the city and asked about that ...city says feds have no jurisdiction between high and low water mark

I know Spence knows the answer...true or false Spence?

Don't know the story but unless it was a national park I'm not sure how they could do it.

Why would anyone want to eat clams from Revere?!?!?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Unfortunately...I don't even think the Tea party knows what it stands for......3 different Sites and 3 different definitions of what they stand for....even Jims listing is different from what the 3 websites say...

http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/about/

http://www.teapartyexpress.org/mission

they all say the same thing just worded differently, they are separate organizations, what the hell is so confusing?...we have 50 different states with 50 different state constitutions as well...do they not know what they stand for because they don't read the same? if you want to be a lock step standardized, centralized government controlled robot, join the democrat party...but first...tell me which of those tea party type principles from any of the sources you might disagree with

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

To me the tea party is full of a bunch of middle class blue collar small business owners who think that they are a hell of a lot wealthier than they really are and who think that they are the ones who are being screwed by government and it's hand outs to the poor. But in reality they are being #^&#^&#^&#^&ed sideways by the 1% who actually run this country and who are using the tea party as a tool to distract from the real problem. The big lie.
The big problem is that corporate America has everything made over seas. Millions of Americans manufacturing jobs are gone. They need help and when they go to the government looking for help, they are looked at by a lot of Americans as freeloaders.
Address the main problem. Our back bone has been broken.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

hey Eben, if you could conveniently remove these people, those that are left that espouse our founding principles the principles from TDF's sources, just imagine our debt, spending, expanding social programs, economy without the pushback...do you ever consider that? Our back is broken by unsustainable debt and overwhelming unfunded obligations and a sick desire by those running things to control every aspect of American life, they have the tools now...you aren't getting your freedom back.....you might think you are free but you are a slave to the bureaucracy now, and it will get worse because the debt isn't going away and those that are expecting those obligations have the power to demand it....and many say in Europe..."you can get by, but you can't get ahead".....

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

...but first...tell me which of those tea party type principles from any of the sources you might disagree with

You can start with grass roots, what a joke.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Scott. I don't agree with either side.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

they all say the same thing just worded differently,

No they don't...

The second one lists 3 core principles.

FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY

CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED GOVERNMENT

FREE MARKET ECONOMICS

The 1st one throws in

Repeal Obamacare

And the third one adds

Illegal Aliens are illegal
A strong military is essential
Gun Ownership is sacred
English as our core language is required.

And then Jim threw in

Sanctity of all human life
Charity/Sacrifice for our neighbors in need

The Republican Party has their platform and so does the Democratic Party .....so don't you think on a national stage they may want to get aligned.

United we stand....

And no I wasn't confused and never said I had a problem with anything listed......I just made an observation. That they are all over the place on their mission statement(s)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

No they don't...

The second one lists 3 core principles.

FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY

CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED GOVERNMENT

FREE MARKET ECONOMICS

The 1st one throws in

Repeal Obamacare

And the third one adds

Illegal Aliens are illegal
A strong military is essential
Gun Ownership is sacred
English as our core language is required.

And then Jim threw in

Sanctity of all human life
Charity/Sacrifice for our neighbors in need

The Republican Party has their platform and so does the Democratic Party .....so don't you think on a national stage they may want to get aligned.

United we stand....

And no I wasn't confused and never said I had a problem with anything listed......I just made an observation. That they are all over the place on their mission statement(s)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you mocked them saying they might not know what they stand for, none of those are mutually exclusive, they were established in their "local" organizations and reflect their "local" values, there is no reason why they would need to align as you seem to think, there is no national organization that I'm aware of... they support local candidates....you want them to be more like the republicans and democrats?

where is the problem in that list?

I think we mock for the sake of mocking ignoring and enabling the real culprits....note Spence's sneering and consider what he supports

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Scott. I don't agree with either side.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it's not about agreeing with one side or the other Eben, it's about recognizing that the Progressive Democrats are on a steady march toward big...no huge government statism, the rest of the democrats and a large number of republicans are on a slightly slower march toward big government...the indebtedness and unfunded liabilities that we are drowning in are the result of big government programs that were poorly conceived, mismanaged and corrupted by the same people that we've now given discretion and authority over our healthcare system (expecting different results?????)...these people cannot even pass a budget!!! the only faction of either party that is calling for fiscal sanity and a return the governing principles that established this republic are those that you refer to broadly as "To me the tea party is full of a bunch of middle class blue collar small business owners who think that they are a hell of a lot wealthier than they really are and who think that they are the ones who are being screwed by government"......got news for ya.....the regulatory state is screwing these businesses, government and those that support it's expansion or live at it's trough don't have much compassion for those that toil to fund it and them....the jobs that you complain have gone overseas are never coming back and even more will leave as the regulatory state expands and the desire to try to maintain a business with the government breathing down your neck constantly becomes less attractive.....

what exactly, if anything, do you agree with ?

[Nebe]

Scott all I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem. The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened. Who's to blame for that??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Scott all I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem. The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened. Who's to blame for that??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the Tea Party "points fingers at the poor as a big problem"...need to digest that one for a bit.....Eben..if you are working at your studio and maybe have a few employees and you discover that your local government is going to determine what you must pay your employees and what benefits you must provide and what they must include and raise your taxes and taxes on your sales and mail you new regulations to comply with on a regular basis and fine you for non-compliance on an arbitrary basis and you learn that you can relocate your business and avoid much of this are your really going to stay? it's why businesses relocate within the country and why businesses relocated off our shores...blame the busy bodies that think the purpose of government is to micro manage every aspect of life and business and who think their purpose is to dream up new and novel legislation, necessary or not to fix existent or non-existent problems to justify their own existence....whatever problems you want to cite or attribute to the private sector in terms of corruption, fraud, nepotism, favoritism and criminal behavior etc. pales in comparison to that which exists in the structures of government and public sector...and the products that the government apparently best produces are debt and dependence ....you are barking up the wrong tree

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Scott all I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem. The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened. Who's to blame for that??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Scott explains it well concisely and specifically in a "conservative" way which may not appeal to you. Let me add to his comments in a more generalized somewhat esoteric way that might appeal to a "liberal."

Freedom is the "blame for that". Just as freedom is the blame for creating the jobs and wealth that were lost and for what the country was like before they were lost and what it would be if they weren't. And it will be freedom who will be to blame for the restoration of jobs and wealth if freedom is allowed to flourish.

But if freedom is too messy, too inefficient, too unfair, and too uncontrollable for the ruling class to allow in sufficient quantity to flourish as it must, then the diminishing of freedom in order to give those who control the power to direct our lives in THE way they proscribe, for their version of what is good for all, then the lack of freedom will be the blame for more dependence and wealth/job crushing debt.

[WESTPORTMAFIA]

This thread is gayer than Facebook.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raven]

no freakin WAY ~~~~~ !!!!!
nuthin is GAYer than "in your Facebook"

[Piscator]

Sit on my Facebook
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

you mocked them saying they might not know what they stand for, none of those are mutually exclusive, they were established in their "local" organizations and reflect their "local" values, there is no reason why they would need to align as you seem to think, there is no national organization that I'm aware of... they support local candidates....you want them to be more like the republicans and democrats?

That would be fine if they were local organizations....but all 3 sites I listed bill themselves as a National Organization. And they want to be taken seriously on the National stage.

Take a kid who has just hit voting age...he is trying to be responsible and do the research to find his political identity, He goes to the Republican Party website and looks at their Platform, He goes to the Democrat Website and looks at their platform....then starts to look at the Tea Party and finds dozens of websites that are all over the place on what their platform is.

Its been said before....most voters are stupid....so why make it anymore difficult to them to identify with the Tea Party.

To me its a Marketing thing.....they should fire their marketing guy cause he's terrible

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Scott all I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem. The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened. Who's to blame for that??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Who's to blame? IMO the American people are, it all could have been avoided if Ross Perot won the election PERIOD.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That would be fine if they were local organizations....but all 3 sites I listed bill themselves as a National Organization. And they want to be taken seriously on the National stage.

Take a kid who has just hit voting age...he is trying to be responsible and do the research to find his political identity, He goes to the Republican Party website and looks at their Platform, He goes to the Democrat Website and looks at their platform....then starts to look at the Tea Party and finds dozens of websites that are all over the place on what their platform is.

Its been said before....most voters are stupid....so why make it anymore difficult to them to identify with the Tea Party.

To me its a Marketing thing.....they should fire their marketing guy cause he's terrible

apples and oranges, they are not political parties as the democrat and repub party, they are issue oriented organizations....they may endorse candidates of any affiliation....just like the various unions...I'm sure that there is different wording in their various charters....you are attempting to lump anyone who identifies as a tea party member or affiliate as if there is one national organization and there is not...I'd prefer that they focus locally and not become a large centrally run from Washington organization lest they become one more spoke in the broken wheel...and if a youngster feeling their way or anyone else for that matter goes to those websites and is confused regarding what they claim to stand for....then they are stupid...and need a US History refresher course

go to this site and click any state on the right.....a myriad of local organizations..

http://www.teaparty911.com/info/loca...ode_island.htm

the difference between the tea party types and the unions being that the tea party types are organizing locally and nationally to protect their freedoms and the union types organize locally and nationally to protect their place at the trough.....


this is not accurate:

" that are all over the place on what their platform is."