nts to pay off unins to stop whining about Obamacare

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Why would the Whitehouse give an immediate answer? If the unions made a reasonable and potentially legal claim shouldn't that be investigated? I haven't read anywhere that the Whitehouse was leading any effort to placate the unions...and the Treasury reports to the Executive Branch just in case you forgot.

-spence

"I haven't read anywhere that the Whitehouse was leading any effort to placate the unions"

No? For the 3rd time, from your link...

"the White House looked at several ways to make the union plans eligible for subsidies "

Now you have read somewhere that the White House was leading such an effort. In stupifying fashion, that smoking gun was provided by you.

[spence]

That doesn't mean they're trying to pay them off, it's called due diligence.

So biased.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That doesn't mean they're trying to pay them off, it's called due diligence.

So biased.
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Spence, I'll ask again...what conceivable legal or moral obligation could the White House possibly have, to reward a subsidy only to those in a union, which would not apply to an identical citizen not in a union?

You repeatedly dodged the cadillac health plan tax exemption, which was proposedf to only be rewarded to unions. More 'due diligence'?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, I'll ask again...what conceivable legal or moral obligation could the White House possibly have, to reward a subsidy only to those in a union, which would not apply to an identical citizen not in a union?

It has nothing to do with the group being singled out, it has everything to do with the legal considerations given the existing members insurance plans. If it was approved I'm sure you'd have other groups coming out of the wood work claiming similar legal exemptions.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

It has nothing to do with the group being singled out, it has everything to do with the legal considerations given the existing members insurance plans. If it was approved I'm sure you'd have other groups coming out of the wood work claiming similar legal exemptions.

-spence

"It has nothing to do with the group being singled out"

No? So how come when the tea party gets 'singled out', it's the IRS that is singling them out for persecution. When the AFL-CIO gets 'singled out', it's to single them out for cash gifts from the White House? Just a coincidence, right?

"If it was approved I'm sure you'd have other groups coming out of the wood work claiming similar legal exemptions."

That's what happened when Obama wanted to include cadillac plan tax amnesty for unions, and hge thought no one wold notice. When Obama realized that he couldn't single out the unions that way, he deleted that amnesty from the law. In other words, Obama didn't remove that lophole until it was clear to him that he couldn't apply it just to the unions. Menaing, his original intent was for the amnesty (kickback) to apply only to his staunchest political supporters.

Do even you believe the stuff you type?

Still waiting for a response on why Obama said raising the debt ceiling was "un-patriotic" in 2006, but a sign of brilliance today. Hmmmmm?

[spence]

When in doubt, conflate issues...nice.

Can you show the language where they walked back the union exemption thinking "no one would notice". I can't find it anywhere. Where's Scott when you need him?

As for raising the debt ceiling (more conflation) Obama addressed this in 2011.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

As for raising the debt ceiling (more conflation) Obama addressed this in 2011.

-spence

Indulge me...what did he say?

[justplugit]

Just talked to my neighbor who is a manager for a small cardiology medical device company, pace makers etc. Because of Obamacare now taxing all medical devices, hips, knees etc. they are laying off 30% of their work force.
Nice, real nice helping the middle class and small business.
But then again Likwid is saving $10 a quarter because of Obamacare.

[spence]

2 percent sales tax and he has to gut his workforce? Doesn't add up.
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

2 percent sales tax and he has to gut his workforce? Doesn't add up.
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That would be 2.3% Spence. Ava Med, a medical device industry group, concluded
43,ooo jobs would be sent overseas in response to the fee.
Obamacare is just great for our US economy.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

That would be 2.3% Spence. Ava Med, a medical device industry group, concluded
43,ooo jobs would be sent overseas in response to the fee.
Obamacare is just great for our US economy.

Wait, an industry trade group who vehemently opposes the tax is predicting job loss? That's hard to believe.

Why would jobs go overseas? The tax is on sales, not just domestic goods.
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Wait, an industry trade group who vehemently opposes the tax is predicting job loss? That's hard to believe.

Why would jobs go overseas? The tax is on sales, not just domestic goods.
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Hard to believe? The President is supposed to set the example for honesty. not.
The tax is an excise tax predicted to bring in 60 billion over the next years 10 yrs.
to Obamacare.

Hope ya never need one Spence, but I'm sure a pacemaker made in China
would give you an extra sense of security.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Hope ya never need one Spence, but I'm sure a pacemaker made in China would give you an extra sense of security.

You'd have to pay the same tax if it was made in China. Plus the additional expense to ensure FDA compliance and transport would likely offset any measurable gains by moving production over seas.

The biggest reason the industry is against the tax is a fear for loss of profit. Some think a lot of this will be easily balanced by more people in the system consuming insurance and hence medical devices.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

The biggest reason the industry is against the tax is a fear for loss of profit. Some think a lot of this will be easily balanced by more people in the system consuming insurance and hence medical devices.

-spence

Of course, profit is the driving force to spend $ on research, hire new employees
expand the business and improve the economy.
Isn't that the basis of Capitalism,where people work hard and reap the benefits for their lot?

The Govt. also profits as the more "big bad profit" made,the more tax profit they reap.

Please tell me who "SOME" are in your second statement.

[justplugit]

When Carney was asked about how many had signed up for Obamacare at his news conference ,he said they wouldn't have an accurate count until mid November. LOL, we can send a man to the moon but they can't get a computer count.

I think Obama should of had the honor to be the first to sign up for his own plan.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by justplugit

When Carney was asked about how many had signed up for Obamacare at his news conference ,he said they wouldn't have an accurate count until mid November. LOL, we can send a man to the moon but they can't get a computer count.

I think Obama should of had the honor to be the first to sign up for his own plan.

It's embarrassingly low . There is a reason they can't count, the computer system doesn't work . 600+ million and 3+ years doesn't get you what it used too
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[justplugit]

Gotta luv the reduction Obamacare is making in Med insurance costs.
My secondary policy just went up $918 a year, the copay doubled on RX
and individual Med deductable went to $2,000 per person.
Nice, real nice helping the middle class.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Gotta luv the reduction Obamacare is making in Med insurance costs.
My secondary policy just went up $918 a year, the copay doubled on RX
and individual Med copay went to $2,000 per person.
Nice, real nice helping the middle class.

are you surprised? this was predicted

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

are you surprised? this was predicted

No not at all Scott, and this is just the beginning of what is being perpetrated
on the American people.
I predict it will go down as the worst legislation ever passed in US history.

[buckman]

So now that we know that the shutdown could've been avoided and the mandate for individuals should have been postponed for year, as the GOP said, I'm dying to hear Spence and Paul's spin on
this.
The shut time was "catastrophic."It's the reason the jobs performance was so poor and now we find out the incompetent IRS can't do their job and things will be delayed 2 to 3 weeks because of the shutdown. What a bunch of buffoons. I'm actually stunned these people manage to get themselves up in the morning.
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by buckman

The shut time was "catastrophic."It's the reason the jobs performance was so poor and now we find out the incompetent IRS can't do their job and things will be delayed 2 to 3 weeks because of the shutdown. What a bunch of buffoons. I'm actually stunned these people manage to get themselves up in the morning.
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Hey Buck, have no fear, the newly hired 16,000 IRS advisors for Obamacare got 20 days training for their jobs to advise us on what our individual health care needs are.
I would bet it would take 20 weeks to read and understand Obamacare as it is written let alone be an advisor with what was supposed to be 30 days of training but reduced to 20 so this debacle could be rolled out on time.

[buckman]

If your on "Florida Blue",
you just lost your health care !!
That's 300k future votes for the tea party I figure.
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[Fly Rod]

Speaking of the IRS


http://money.msn.com/business-news/a...23&id=17028449

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

So now that we know that the shutdown could've been avoided and the mandate for individuals should have been postponed for year, as the GOP said, I'm dying to hear Spence and Paul's spin on
this.

So you're asserting the GOP had insight into IT issues? I'm all ears...

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So you're asserting the GOP had insight into IT issues? I'm all ears...

-spence

You don't need to be Nostradamus to have guessed that if Obama had anything to do with it, it would turn into a puddle of vomit.

[justplugit]

The problem is, Ego has taken over in place of what's best for the American people.
If Obama was a true leader and servant of the people he would take this Affordable? Health Care Act back to the drawing board , help the 28% of the people without health care as it was orignally supposed to do and leave the other 72% alone.
Where is the $2500 savings/ average family when mine has gone up over $900 for 2 people? Hope no one has gone out and bought a big ticket item with their anticipated savings.
People are finally waking up, including the Dems, as this thing rolls out and it starts
hitting people in their pocket book.

[TheSpecialist]

The biggest problem with medical care in this country, is the disparity that hospitals and doctors charge, and the reasonable amount they accept from insurance companies. If you are not insured or have a week plan you pay through the nose. The government needs to set a fee schedule for all things medical, then worry about insurance for all. In the long run it will save billions of dollars...

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

If your on "Florida Blue",
you just lost your health care !!
That's 300k future votes for the tea party I figure.
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This isn't true at all.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The biggest problem with medical care in this country, is the disparity that hospitals and doctors charge, and the reasonable amount they accept from insurance companies. If you are not insured or have a week plan you pay through the nose. The government needs to set a fee schedule for all things medical, then worry about insurance for all. In the long run it will save billions of dollars...

Sounds like central planning. Perhaps all the private companies that have lobbied for price fixing over the years should fess up.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Sounds like central planning.

Yup. And government price controls generally create negative distortions on the market. If it were possible for the government to impose the exact price levels which would achieve a true equilibrium in market transactions, it might be a good thing. So far, that doesn't seem to have been possible.

Perhaps all the private companies that have lobbied for price fixing over the years should fess up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That would expose their request for crony capitalistic suppression of competition. We all know that crony capitalism is a No-No. But, alas, it happens anyway. The "left" and the "right" rail against it, but neither is able to eliminate it.