Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-12-2013, 11:37 AM   #1
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
nts to pay off unins to stop whining about Obamacare

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...for-obamacare/

Obama said Obamacare would lower healthcare costs.

Even his most staunch supporters, big labor, know that's not what's happening, so they complain.

Reports are that the White House is looking at a proposal that would offer subsidies of $20 billion a year, to help union members, and only union members, pay for Obamacare premiums.

This, from the guy who said that his election would end politics as usual?

Spence, Paul S, any liberal here...please tell me why union members deserve this subsidy, and everyone else does not? If this isn't a classic Chicago-style payoff, what the heck is it?

How long, O Lord?
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 05:47 AM   #2
basswipe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
basswipe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: RI
Posts: 5,531
Its not just unions that will receive subsidies.Welfare recipients and immigrants will get up to 70%,yes I said 70%,of their healthcare paid for by the gov.Take a guess as to where that money will come from.Affordable care act my ass.
basswipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 07:40 AM   #3
Fishpart
Keep The Change
iTrader: (0)
 
Fishpart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Road to Serfdom
Posts: 3,232
http://pages.townhall.com/campaign/t...turn-obamacare

Its not up to the courts to invent new minorities that get special protections, Antonin Scalia
Fishpart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 07:49 AM   #4
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Spence, Paul S, any liberal here...please tell me why union members deserve this subsidy, and everyone else does not? If this isn't a classic Chicago-style payoff, what the heck is it?

How long, O Lord?
You need to reach out a little, there is no story here.

Unions claimed their members should be exempt, the White House said no.

Your story isn't about reality, it's about a Republican lawmaker's stunt to pass a bill for a problem that doesn't exist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ion-96793.html

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 07:59 AM   #5
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: newpawht
Posts: 19,435
The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.. This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare. I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 AM   #6
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.. This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare. I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
that was funny
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:15 AM   #7
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: newpawht
Posts: 19,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
that was funny
You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:20 AM   #8
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
The poor are poor because we take too much from the rich and give it to the poor.

That is why wealth is being consolidated at the top.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:39 AM   #9
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post

any liberal here...please tell me why union members deserve this subsidy, and everyone else does not?

How long, O Lord?
And their answer is ? They have no answer.
Where are the Libs hiding on this forum anyway?

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:40 AM   #10
Raider Ronnie
www.blackhullcharters.com
iTrader: (0)
 
Raider Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 8,921
Send a message via AIM to Raider Ronnie
The poor are poor because they are either lazy or stupid (or a combination of the 2)
The rich (self made rich) didn't get rich being lazy, stupid or a combination of the 2.
Always the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing apologist Spence !





Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
The poor are poor because we take too much from the rich and give it to the poor.

That is why wealth is being consolidated at the top.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Raider Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 08:41 AM   #11
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: newpawht
Posts: 19,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie View Post
The poor are poor because they are either lazy or stupid (or a combination of the 2)
The rich (self made rich) didn't get rich being lazy, stupid or a combination of the 2.
Always the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing apologist Spence !
Are you rich?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 09:04 AM   #12
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
can't possibly be happening in the age of Obama, it was declared early in his presidency that we are all socialists now, we've not been practicing "capitalism" for quite some time, we've been slouching toward progressive socialism which is built on lies as is becoming quite obvious....you can blame it on some "fatal flaw" with capitalism , it's convenient but nonsensical...I think a lot of Americans would like a whole lot more capitalism right now...
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 09:05 AM   #13
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,589
The poor are getting poorer because there are fewer jobs in this economy for them to work at. However, I keep seeing help wanted signs in many small retail businesses, but people can make out just as well with all their Govt. give a ways. Takes away incentive.

Jobs are being lost in the poorer states like W. Virginia because the EPA is causing the coal mines to produce less coal with lay offs of up to 70% of the work force. The Keystone pipe line, drilling and fracking would help workers as these, who want to work, get jobs. At the same time we could become energy independent and not have to deal with all this stuff in the Middle East.
But that makes too much sense.
I laugh when people put down the rich, they have no clue as to how much sacrifice time and effort are required to become rich. They provide jobs and benefits for people and pay taxes.
Obama loves to see them become richer as they are the ones who are paying the large % of the taxes that he can use to give away more.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 09:42 AM   #14
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
I don't have time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Oh, good....so without more capitalism, now that it has peaked and is clearly unsustainable probably due to that "fatal flaw", how do you plan to pay for peak sustainable government dependency? and peak sustainable government debt? which if we are not currently at, is frightening to think of the possibilities if we continue on this path (with less capitalism)?

Last edited by scottw; 09-21-2013 at 10:07 AM..
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 09:42 AM   #15
Raider Ronnie
www.blackhullcharters.com
iTrader: (0)
 
Raider Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 8,921
Send a message via AIM to Raider Ronnie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
Are you rich?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Am I rich, no
Am I poor, no
Somewhere in the middle and have worked my ass off my whole life and have never taken or asked for a hand out, ever !
Raider Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 10:12 AM   #16
Fishpart
Keep The Change
iTrader: (0)
 
Fishpart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Road to Serfdom
Posts: 3,232
And another thing, try and find a machinist... YOU CAN'T why? se During the Clinton years the GVT controlled monopoly education system decided to stop teaching the trades and send everyone to college and transition to a "Service Economy", look what that did for us.

Why are house prices out of control? The governmnet got involved in the mortgage business, Barney and crew hauled the bank presidents in fromt of a Senate Sub-Comittee and forced them to give out loans to everyone without verifying income etc... Then Chris Dodd made the statement that the loans were backed by fannie and Freddie and didn't need to be capitalized at 20%, 2% was good enough because the loans were backed by the faith and credit of the GVT, which then created the derivative market which caused the crash...

The government isn't the solution, it IS the problem. Read von Hayek, we are on the rod to serfdom..

Its not up to the courts to invent new minorities that get special protections, Antonin Scalia
Fishpart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #17
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
this represents your average conversation with a liberal/progressive though...

Jim points out that many Unions are unhappy with Obamacare, along with so much of the nation and that they want special treatment from their buddies

Spence replies suggesting that Jim has no idea what he's talking about and blames it all on some unnamed Republican

Eben then rambles on some nonsense about how this is all the fault of peak sustainable capitalism, which sounds too much like peak oil and sustainability(catch phrases) rolled up in a ball....or something but doesn't have time to elaborate

and of course....ARE YOU RICH?......

I'd be afraid to answer that these days, like putting a target on your shirt, unless you are Lefty Rich, then you are the BEST!

oh, brother Hope and Change!
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 10:31 AM   #18
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer..

Under what "system" do the rich not get rich and the poor do not get poorer? What is it about "capitalism" and only capitalism that causes this phenomenon? And why is that necessarily fatal? Is there some ideal "system" in which the rich and the poor constantly stay at the same level of economic separation? Perhaps, the only "solution" to the discrepancy is to eliminate it. Perhaps, some new form of "socialism" not yet invented will make everyone "equal."

And what do you mean by "capitalism"? Is there some intrinsic mechanism peculiar to it that necessarily exacerbates the effects of poverty and enhances those of wealth? I constantly hear references to "capitalism" which cast it as various causes of social evils, many of which have nothing to do with the capitalistic process as much as they have to do with human nature, greed, stupidity, politics--as witnessed by the oppressions of people under monarchies, dictatorships, and, yes, those blessed socialist societies in general. Perhaps, one big strike against "capitalism" is its invention by Marx, Until him, it was an age old process of market economics. He cast it as a stepping stone, with a "fatal flaw," toward a more egalitarian society. And it has suffered under that stigma ever since, especially in academic circles which in turn inform the greater outlets of information such as the "media."

Rather than a fatal flaw in capitalism, which process allows greater numbers of people to rise from poverty, there is a fatal flaw in socialistic systems(which includes all forms of government control and ownership, dictatorships, monarchies, fascism, etc.) which does not have a means to rise above a prescribed level. Rather than as fatal flaw in capitalism, its process is a marketplace for progress and freedom unknown to purely socialistic societies. Keep in mind that even socialistic societies use capitalistic methods to improve their lot.


This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare.

They are already being "helped." The supposed reason for Obamacare is to give them all some form of "insurance." And, supposedly, to lower the cost of healthcare. But for that to happen in the way Obamacare prescribes, healthcare will be more expensive, and the cost will be born by the beloved "middle class."

I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
The value of the dollar is not dictated by capitalism. A shrinking dollar is no friend of capitalism. The value of the dollar is more directly contrived by government manipulation. For capitalism, the dollar is a medium of exchange. For political purposes it is a medium of control. Government printing of more dollars than necessary for given volumes of business is a means to pay for its pet projects and means of control. It is also a means, by lowering the value, to a bit more easily pay off debt which was borrowed at a higher value. Inflationary prices have to do with too much money, which the government controls. Those who have saved a little bundle find it harder to use it for what they once thought they could. That does not help capitalism, as a whole, but it does prop up, momentarily, government.

Last edited by detbuch; 09-21-2013 at 10:40 AM..
detbuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 10:32 AM   #19
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishpart View Post
And another thing, try and find a machinist... YOU CAN'T why? se During the Clinton years the GVT controlled monopoly education system decided to stop teaching the trades and send everyone to college and transition to a "Service Economy", look what that did for us.
The reason you can't find a machinist is likely because they're in demand. While lower end production has largely left the country precision manufacturing is doing quite well. Companies right now can't get enough local talent. The work is increasingly most sophisticated as well, that engineering degree is a prerequisite for many jobs.

-spence
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #20
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,589
Spence, if you want to know the truth about Machinists ask Professor Moriarity
about the demand for Machinists.Unless there has been a 360 in the last year
or so it is quite the opposite of your post.

Scottw, LOL waaay to funnie.

Last edited by justplugit; 09-21-2013 at 12:26 PM..

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 12:17 PM   #21
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,589
Originally by Debuch-

"Perhaps some new form of "Socialism", not yet invented, will make everyone Equal.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Not only is it not yet invented, but never will be , because there will always be people who are ambitious, like hard work and all the satisfaction and self worth it brings and there will always be lazy slackerds. Human nature will never change.

Capitalism is as close to being fair as possible because you are rewarded on the basis of what sacrifices and hard work you are willing to make and do.
Socialism is unfair because slackerds benefit from the hard work of others.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #22
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by justplugit View Post
Spence, if you want to know the truth ..........

or so it is quite the opposite of your post.

this is usually the case isn't it?
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #23
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by justplugit View Post
Spence, if you want to know the truth about Machinists ask Professor Moriarity
about the demand for Machinists.Unless there has been a 360 in the last year
or so it is quite the opposite of your post.

Scottw, LOL waaay to funnie.
Wait, I'm wrong and if I want to find out go ask someone else?

It might not be perfect for everyone everywhere, but overall demand is certainly up. The challenge many companies have is finding the right skills in the right location.

-spence
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 02:15 PM   #24
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
this represents your average conversation with a liberal/progressive though...
And this represents your typical post. Add nothing...misinform.

-spence
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 02:36 PM   #25
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Before you guys get too far off topic, can I just remind everyone again that Jim got this story completely wrong. Hell if anything he should be praising the POTUS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 02:42 PM   #26
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Before you guys get too far off topic, can I just remind everyone again that Jim got this story completely wrong. Hell if anything he should be praising the POTUS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Obama said Obamacare would lower healthcare costs. true


Even his most staunch supporters, big labor, know that's not what's happening, so they complain. true

Reports are that the White House is looking at a proposal that would offer subsidies of $20 billion a year, to help union members, and only union members, pay for Obamacare premiums. true

This, from the guy who said that his election would end politics as usual? true

Spence, Paul S, any liberal here...please tell me why union members deserve this subsidy, and everyone else does not? If this isn't a classic Chicago-style payoff, what the heck is it? good question maybe Jim didn't know that the administration declined the request regretfully "A senior administration official said the White House looked at several ways to make the union plans eligible for subsidies but couldn’t find one." but they tried real hard

Labor officials met privately with President Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Labor Secretary Tom Perez on Friday afternoon to press their case that the Affordable Care Act will have consequences for the benefits of union employees. wow...a private audience, they must be special!

How long, O Lord? true

Last edited by scottw; 09-21-2013 at 06:18 PM..
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #27
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,704
Ok, so you've both got it wrong. I can live with that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 10:06 PM   #28
justplugit
Registered Grandpa
iTrader: (0)
 
justplugit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: east coast
Posts: 8,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Wait, I'm wrong and if I want to find out go ask someone else?

It might not be perfect for everyone everywhere, but overall demand is certainly up. The challenge many companies have is finding the right skills in the right location.

-spence
Spence, seriously, go to the horse's mouth. P. is a skilled professional Machinist and will give you the right skinny.

" Choose Life "
justplugit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 04:13 AM   #29
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
he doesn't care about the facts, he just likes to bloviate.....


had to include this definition from the Urban Dictionary because it freakin' hilaroious and perfect



bloviate


To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner.

A key attribute to those that sell. To pretend to understand technical subject matter and sell it to others even dumber then oneself.



the problem is a lack of those "even dumber then oneself" for him to sell to
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 08:59 AM   #30
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 31,634
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.. This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare. I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
What is the alternative? And where has the alternative ever worked?

Why is the money deflated?

I'm actually in favor of universal healthcare but WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
The reason you can't find a machinist is likely because they're in demand. While lower end production has largely left the country precision manufacturing is doing quite well. Companies right now can't get enough local talent. The work is increasingly most sophisticated as well, that engineering degree is a prerequisite for many jobs.

-spence
If you want to know the truth about hiring machinists, ask Fishpart, if you want to know the truth about running a crew machinists, ask Fishpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by justplugit View Post
Spence, if you want to know the truth about Machinists ask Professor Moriarity
about the demand for Machinists.Unless there has been a 360 in the last year
or so it is quite the opposite of your post.

Scottw, LOL waaay to funnie.
If you want to know the truth about hiring machinists, ask Fishpart, if you want to know the truth about running a crew machinists, ask Fishpary

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com