nts to pay off unins to stop whining about Obamacare

[Nebe]

The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.. This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare. I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.. This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare. I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

that was funny

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

that was funny

You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The poor are poor because we take too much from the rich and give it to the poor.

That is why wealth is being consolidated at the top.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

The poor are poor because they are either lazy or stupid (or a combination of the 2)
The rich (self made rich) didn't get rich being lazy, stupid or a combination of the 2.
Always the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing apologist Spence !

Originally Posted by spence

The poor are poor because we take too much from the rich and give it to the poor.

That is why wealth is being consolidated at the top.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

The poor are poor because they are either lazy or stupid (or a combination of the 2)
The rich (self made rich) didn't get rich being lazy, stupid or a combination of the 2.
Always the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing apologist Spence !

Are you rich?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

The poor are getting poorer because there are fewer jobs in this economy for them to work at. However, I keep seeing help wanted signs in many small retail businesses, but people can make out just as well with all their Govt. give a ways. Takes away incentive.

Jobs are being lost in the poorer states like W. Virginia because the EPA is causing the coal mines to produce less coal with lay offs of up to 70% of the work force. The Keystone pipe line, drilling and fracking would help workers as these, who want to work, get jobs. At the same time we could become energy independent and not have to deal with all this stuff in the Middle East.
But that makes too much sense.
I laugh when people put down the rich, they have no clue as to how much sacrifice time and effort are required to become rich. They provide jobs and benefits for people and pay taxes.
Obama loves to see them become richer as they are the ones who are paying the large % of the taxes that he can use to give away more.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Are you rich?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Am I rich, no
Am I poor, no
Somewhere in the middle and have worked my ass off my whole life and have never taken or asked for a hand out, ever !

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You disagree that the dollars value has dumped? That the middle class is shrinking and that people can't afford to live Ina home that they used to be able to afford 10 years ago and that affordable healthcare won't help people? That's even funnier.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

can't possibly be happening in the age of Obama, it was declared early in his presidency that we are all socialists now, we've not been practicing "capitalism" for quite some time, we've been slouching toward progressive socialism which is built on lies as is becoming quite obvious....you can blame it on some "fatal flaw" with capitalism , it's convenient but nonsensical...I think a lot of Americans would like a whole lot more capitalism right now...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I don't have time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Oh, good....so without more capitalism, now that it has peaked and is clearly unsustainable probably due to that "fatal flaw", how do you plan to pay for peak sustainable government dependency? and peak sustainable government debt? which if we are not currently at, is frightening to think of the possibilities if we continue on this path (with less capitalism)?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer..

Under what "system" do the rich not get rich and the poor do not get poorer? What is it about "capitalism" and only capitalism that causes this phenomenon? And why is that necessarily fatal? Is there some ideal "system" in which the rich and the poor constantly stay at the same level of economic separation? Perhaps, the only "solution" to the discrepancy is to eliminate it. Perhaps, some new form of "socialism" not yet invented will make everyone "equal."

And what do you mean by "capitalism"? Is there some intrinsic mechanism peculiar to it that necessarily exacerbates the effects of poverty and enhances those of wealth? I constantly hear references to "capitalism" which cast it as various causes of social evils, many of which have nothing to do with the capitalistic process as much as they have to do with human nature, greed, stupidity, politics--as witnessed by the oppressions of people under monarchies, dictatorships, and, yes, those blessed socialist societies in general. Perhaps, one big strike against "capitalism" is its invention by Marx, Until him, it was an age old process of market economics. He cast it as a stepping stone, with a "fatal flaw," toward a more egalitarian society. And it has suffered under that stigma ever since, especially in academic circles which in turn inform the greater outlets of information such as the "media."

Rather than a fatal flaw in capitalism, which process allows greater numbers of people to rise from poverty, there is a fatal flaw in socialistic systems(which includes all forms of government control and ownership, dictatorships, monarchies, fascism, etc.) which does not have a means to rise above a prescribed level. Rather than as fatal flaw in capitalism, its process is a marketplace for progress and freedom unknown to purely socialistic societies. Keep in mind that even socialistic societies use capitalistic methods to improve their lot.

This is ever so evident if we look at the last decade and the shrinking middle class. So when the poor get poorer, and I'm talking the working poor here.. The ones who bust their asses every day just to make ends meet.. These are the people who will be helped by obamacare.

They are already being "helped." The supposed reason for Obamacare is to give them all some form of "insurance." And, supposedly, to lower the cost of healthcare. But for that to happen in the way Obamacare prescribes, healthcare will be more expensive, and the cost will be born by the beloved "middle class."

I don't hae time to get into it more, but I feel that we are at the peak of sustainable capitalism. Houses are expensive, food is expensive.. Everything is.. All due to the falling value of the dollar.
Am I for this idealistically? No... But realistically, the average American working an average job has been priced out of the American dream. This can help so many. And who's to say that the money they save won't be spent on other goods and boost the economy somehow.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The value of the dollar is not dictated by capitalism. A shrinking dollar is no friend of capitalism. The value of the dollar is more directly contrived by government manipulation. For capitalism, the dollar is a medium of exchange. For political purposes it is a medium of control. Government printing of more dollars than necessary for given volumes of business is a means to pay for its pet projects and means of control. It is also a means, by lowering the value, to a bit more easily pay off debt which was borrowed at a higher value. Inflationary prices have to do with too much money, which the government controls. Those who have saved a little bundle find it harder to use it for what they once thought they could. That does not help capitalism, as a whole, but it does prop up, momentarily, government.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The core problem here is the fatal flaw with capitalism. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe, all of us hate the fact that poverty exists. But can you name an economic system that provides more upward economic mobility than capitalism?

It's harder to avoid poverty than it used to be...used to be you could get C's in high school, get your diploma, and walk into a manufacturing plant and be middle class. Not so anymore.

So what's a poor person to do?
[LIST]
Get good grades.
Go to college, major in engineering, accounting, or anything related to healthcare (pharmacy, physical therapy, physicians assistant, etc)
Not college material? Learn a specialized trade, or join the military.
Don't make babies until you are self-sufficient.

How hard is that? Harder than it used to be, but for the vast majority of us, it's within reach. And we owe it to those few who don't have the necessary tools, to take care of them.

Drive through a big city, and the poverty I see isn't huge numbers of people who are biologically precluded from going to college. I see huge numbers of people who made Godawful choices - like voting for liberal Democrats who are hellbent on guaranteeing the continuation of poverty, by making poor people addicted to a sense of welfare and entitlement...