Colorado baker ordered to serve gay wedding or face fines

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think WBC gets away with what they do under Freedom of Speech, not Freedom of Religion. You don't need to base what they do on religion...anybody thats non-affiliated can do it under freedom of speech....just like burning the flag.

I would like to know what religion the baker is, plenty of religions are against Gay Marriage but they will still be accepting of Gays. Even the Pope just recently came out and said "Who are we to Judge". Be interesting to A) See where this Goes and B) see what kind of can of worms it opens up.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think WBC gets away with what they do under Freedom of Speech, not Freedom of Religion. You don't need to base what they do on religion...anybody thats non-affiliated can do it under freedom of speech....just like burning the flag.

I would like to know what religion the baker is, plenty of religions are against Gay Marriage but they will still be accepting of Gays. Even the Pope just recently came out and said "Who are we to Judge". Be interesting to A) See where this Goes and B) see what kind of can of worms it opens up.

You made a good point about freedom of speech. I looked it up...the ACLU, of course, has defended the Westboro Baptists on both freedon of speech grounds and freedom of religion grounds...

"I would like to know what religion the baker is"

Some kind of Christianity...

"plenty of religions are against Gay Marriage but they will still be accepting of Gays"

Very true.

"interesting to A) See where this Goes and B) see what kind of can of worms it opens up"

The baker, who can get free representation if he chooses, has not yet decided (last I checked) whether o rnot he will appeal.

I wonder if ACLU will defend his right to freedom of religion, as they did for Westboro Baprist? Not likely!

[Nebe]

Im pretty much done with this topic, but heres the deal.. What if someone went into his shop and asked for a Job.. and let him know that they were gay….. He then says sorry.. I don't hire gays..

That is discrimination and very much on the same grounds as him saying ' sorry no cake for you gay boys'…

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Im pretty much done with this topic, but heres the deal.. What if someone went into his shop and asked for a Job.. and let him know that they were gay….. He then says sorry.. I don't hire gays..

That is discrimination and very much on the same grounds as him saying ' sorry no cake for you gay boys'…

Here is what you are not grasping...this baker's religion, presumably, does not say that homosexuals do not have the right to be employed. His religion does say they don't have the right to marry.

Look at it this way...Catholic hospitals cannot refuse to hire homosexual doctors, but they can absolutely refuse to let that homosexual doctor get married in the hospital chapel.

You may well have a point about discrimination. However, you never, not once, addressed the baker's right to fredom of religion.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Im pretty much done with this topic, but heres the deal.. What if someone went into his shop and asked for a Job.. and let him know that they were gay….. He then says sorry.. I don't hire gays..

That is discrimination and very much on the same grounds as him saying ' sorry no cake for you gay boys'…

As TDF says, employment laws do not apply to refusal to provide service. Even more, I believe at the Federal level, businesses with less than 15 employees don't have to abide by sexual orientation discrimination law. State laws differ in many ways. Depends on Colorado's discrimination laws.

The problem with anti-discrimination laws is that they discriminate. They are on shaky philosophical grounds and definitely on our Federal Constitution grounds. The Constitution does not prohibit individuals from discriminating. It prohibits government from doing so. So when government creates laws which discriminate in favor of one party over another, it does that which it prohibits against and does so against that which it is prohibited.

Your right to discriminate, so long as it does not deny someone else their right to life, liberty and PURSUIT of happiness, is one of those unalienable rights not specified but inherent in the understood VAST RESIDUUM of rights not given to government but retained by the individual.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think WBC gets away with what they do under Freedom of Speech, not Freedom of Religion. You don't need to base what they do on religion...anybody thats non-affiliated can do it under freedom of speech....just like burning the flag.

Yes, the court decided their right was under Freedom of Speech. I would think the same applies to the baker vs. the gays issue. But, unless the case is appealed and gets up to the SCOTUS, it remains a State issue and the gays win.