Rockfish9 Sand Eel Swimmer...Look Right?

[numbskull]

I've not built Joe's design and I would defer to his expertise on getting it to swim. His approach is different than mine and uses a high slot lip to counteract the buoyancy of the light plug (an approach CCBC first used with surfsters and guys like Bassmaster and RM Smith use on their "dannys"). Obviously it can work well.

The other extreme is a similar shaped plug I call a skinny donny. It is about 7.5" long, 1.2" wide, and uses a low slot midsized donny lip that is mounted a bit above midline. It carries as much as 15-17grams of weight a bit behind midpoint. It weighs around 2.75-3oz and casts very well. Floats level with tail just under and water line above midline at head. It is made of AYC. It can't carry anything more than cut 3/0 hooks. I have to bend the line tie way down to keep it near the top, even with a low slot lip. It rolls something awful…..it will do a 360 degree barrel roll with a twitch of the rod tip. Nobody would intentionally choose to build such a poor swimmer. It has taken more large fish than anything else I build, including 3 fish over 40 lbs.

The plug only works at a crawl, so slow it is actually hard to fish on spinning tackle. I suspect the reason it works is a combination of its length and weight that slows its action because of lateral water pressure. In spite of this increased lateral resistance, the plug starts swimming at very slow speed because it does not require any forward motion to overcome buoyancy and get the lip down and moving.

Lighter plugs tend to skate a bit along the surface until they get enough bite to overcome the buoyancy of the head and start working. This is why light swimmers with high slot lips often use fat bellies to keep them on top and lever the tail up as you start retrieving them (getting the tail up drops lateral water resistance and lets them swim sooner but with a faster wag).

As for your question on weighting swimmers, it depends on how fast an action you want. The weight acts like a pivot point. For any given buoyancy, the more central the mass the more the plug will wag, the more the mass is distributed end to end the slower the action (this usually means a tail weight and more forward belly weight and front hook). Obviously you can also slow action by sinking the plug more or lengthening it to increase lateral resistance. I don't get all scientific about what wood I use. Mostly I use pine, less often AYC or Basswood. I just adjust the weight scheme and hook placement to get what I want.

Truth is, however, that the fish see these plugs differently than we do and often an action that seems undesirable to you will fish better than you expect. In addition, the action of these plugs changes over the distance of the retrieve (because of the angle to the rod tip). Finally, day vs night, current vs still, and rough vs calm all matter. So best not to over think it, too much.

[iamskippy]

You just answered so many questions for me thank you, now to impliment thays the tough one.

Originally Posted by numbskull

I've not built Joe's design and I would defer to his expertise on getting it to swim. His approach is different than mine and uses a high slot lip to counteract the buoyancy of the light plug (an approach CCBC first used with surfsters and guys like Bassmaster and RM Smith use on their "dannys"). Obviously it can work well.

The other extreme is a similar shaped plug I call a skinny donny. It is about 7.5" long, 1.2" wide, and uses a low slot midsized donny lip that is mounted a bit above midline. It carries as much as 15-17grams of weight a bit behind midpoint. It weighs around 2.75-3oz and casts very well. Floats level with tail just under and water line above midline at head. It is made of AYC. It can't carry anything more than cut 3/0 hooks. I have to bend the line tie way down to keep it near the top, even with a low slot lip. It rolls something awful…..it will do a 360 degree barrel roll with a twitch of the rod tip. Nobody would intentionally choose to build such a poor swimmer. It has taken more large fish than anything else I build, including 3 fish over 40 lbs.

The plug only works at a crawl, so slow it is actually hard to fish on spinning tackle. I suspect the reason it works is a combination of its length and weight that slows its action because of lateral water pressure. In spite of this increased lateral resistance, the plug starts swimming at very slow speed because it does not require any forward motion to overcome buoyancy and get the lip down and moving.

Lighter plugs tend to skate a bit along the surface until they get enough bite to overcome the buoyancy of the head and start working. This is why light swimmers with high slot lips often use fat bellies to keep them on top and lever the tail up as you start retrieving them (getting the tail up drops lateral water resistance and lets them swim sooner but with a faster wag).

As for your question on weighting swimmers, it depends on how fast an action you want. The weight acts like a pivot point. For any given buoyancy, the more central the mass the more the plug will wag, the more the mass is distributed end to end the slower the action (this usually means a tail weight and more forward belly weight and front hook). Obviously you can also slow action by sinking the plug more or lengthening it to increase lateral resistance. I don't get all scientific about what wood I use. Mostly I use pine, less often AYC or Basswood. I just adjust the weight scheme and hook placement to get what I want.

Truth is, however, that the fish see these plugs differently than we do and often an action that seems undesirable to you will fish better than you expect. In addition, the action of these plugs changes over the distance of the retrieve (because of the angle to the rod tip). Finally, day vs night, current vs still, and rough vs calm all matter. So best not to over think it, too much.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Rockfish9]

I've been making it for awhile and kept it to myself...
Originaly, I wanted a slim plug ( like a bomber or rebel, rappala etc.) that would imitate spike mackerel and sand eels... thus the plug in discussion...I wanted one that would be fished from my boat, cast to the beach while under a slow ( 1.5 -2knot) troll WITH the tide... so even in pause mode, the plug still swam.. I wanted a plag that would, if desired, run a little deeper ( as in river fishing)... as we are seeing here.. some people want a surface plug... I found that there were ocasions that with heavier line and a lower rod angle, the plug swam a little deper that I wanted...

Bless George for his great scientific discriptions... he explains much better than I... I just build until it works.. and scrap those that don't ..it's my way...he's a thinking man.. a not always am... I just create until I'm happy.

so if you want one that WILL NOT dive here are the Mods..... my origianl design, had a 11/16 nose... I've fattend it up for this application to 3/4".... the tail was 1/2" .. make it 5/8".. keep the fat part 1 1/16"... move the front hook back to 2 1/8"...leave the weight where it is but increase it to 6 grams.. this keeps the center of gravity right around the hook...omit the rear hook and the front hook now can sport a 3/0 with no issue.. the tail hook can be a 6/0 siwash, a flag gives a more viloent tail wag and the plug does not sit as flat when retrieved... the lip is now a lefty mid slot... but move it down center 1/16" towards the bottom, this gets the bill below the belly of the plug for greater stability and better control on that desireable slow crawl...BTW.. evenif you crank up the speed, the lead in the belly keeps her upright.. she will not roll out... anoter thing.. drill this plug with a 1/8" drill bit... being that slim.. every little bit helps...I use a # 3 Krok swivel and cut the hook... but I really didn't see any differance in the action with a split ring.. I just dont like 'em.