Montauk eel rod

[East Tide]

Interesting observations, Numbskull. Do you have data to support these claims from a wide cross section of casters? I don't mean to sound accusatory, simply curious.

Personally, I enjoy building rods and find with my rudimentary methods can make something that fishes exceptionally and fits my style and needs. Two exceptions over the last 15 years would be a Pac Bay 1208 I built that seemed to "shake" a little when throwing heavy metal long distances with braid and a All Star 1328 I built last year that is a great CCC jigging rod, but fairly tip heavy (even with a Abu 7500 on it).

I have also found that with an eel rod or jigging rod I prefer it to be balanced a little more towards the back end, which you can also accomplish with a heavier reel. Maybe that's why JS chose the heavier reel?

Good thoughts.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by East Tide

Interesting observations, Numbskull. Do you have data to support these claims from a wide cross section of casters? I don't mean to sound accusatory, simply curious.

.

A " wide cross section of casters"? Of course not. Very few people build rods this way. The LC transition builds are too complicated for most, and the KLH builds are only this year becoming practical with the availabilty of the new M series transition guides. I had to learn this for myself, but I did and now I'm putting it out there for others to try if they want something better to fish with.

Understand that I did not come to this as an internet fad. I came to it step by step because I was unhappy with the way my rods performed and it made no sense to stick with large guide systems designed for mono or reels larger than I needed for braid. I knew others felt the same and were having success pushing beyond the NGC builds, so I followed them. My transition has gone COF-NGC-Full LC-LC rapid choke (most of my rods are this) and now KLH rapid choke. Some rods I've rebuilt 4x on the same blank and seen improvement each step away.

Presently, the vast majority of rods (though not the one JK outlines above which is Cone of Flight) are built to a NGC formula. It works fine (none of these guide systems cast appreciably further than the other provided they are set up right). It is forgiving, lighter than most COF layouts, fits lots of different sized reels or line choices (which makes it popular with factory or stock-custom builds), and it is still a viable choice for short rods using large spool high stem reels, big rods where near spool blank support is desired (like a canal jigger), or builds where double footed guides are felt necessary (they are usually not, I suspect, but I'm still not fully there). If I was building a 10-11 ft rod for a 706/ZB 27/VS250-300 I'd still likely use it (at 11 ft for slight smaller spool reels like a VS200/ZB 25 I feel you can do better though that's debatable) But that is not what is being discussed in this thread. Here we are talking about a 1201L and that calls for a different minset, I feel.

If I am building on a 1201L (or anyother 1-3, 9-10 ft blank) I am very certain the rods performance can be enhnaced by building with small light guides and using a midsized reel. You could still do this NGC starting with a 30L or 25 KW, but you can also do it as well yet still lighter and more responsively with a rapid choke build using KLH or LC guides and small runners.

Unless you test the latter two guide systems for yourself against a NGC layout (as I have) you have no way to make a good decision about what feels best to you. If you build your own rods, it is naive not to try it (the three extra guides are cheap).

I'm not looking to fish rods that are more "clever" than the next guy (most of my fishing is done far from the canal or other fishermen), I'm looking to fish rods that are light, cast well, hold up well, and are comfortable to use for hours after hour. I feel what I have learned can benefit others who want the same, so I'm putting it out there to be tried and let people decide for themselves.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by East Tide

I have also found that with an eel rod or jigging rod I prefer it to be balanced a little more towards the back end, which you can also accomplish with a heavier reel. Maybe that's why JS chose the heavier reel?
.

I can't speak to this very well since I don't jig the canal and all the eel fishing I did (sad to admit) was with conventional tackle.....which I used exclusively since a 706 and big COF builds were so much heavier.

I do not, however, like the idea of using a heavy reel (or long butt) to balance an over built tip. I used to do both (as well as using counter weights) but found it tiring or awkward as the night wore on. The better solution is to build the tip as light as you can and match the reel to the task at hand, rather than oversize to counterbalance a poorly thought out rod.

If you think about this, for many years the standard Striped bass reel was a 706 that held 300 yds of 20 lb mono and generated 7-8lbs of reliable drag. You can now fill a 5000 sized reel with 300yds of 30lb braid and generate 7-8lbs of drag yet it weighs almost 9 oz less than a 706. So why do we need a 22 oz ZB or VS with 300yds of 50lb braid to catch the same fish we used to catch on a 706? Maybe in the canal where the reel gets used as a winch and gears can strip, but everywhere else?

[JLH]

Originally Posted by numbskull

If you think about this, for many years the standard Striped bass reel was a 706 that held 300 yds of 20 lb mono and generated 7-8lbs of reliable drag. You can now fill a 5000 sized reel with 300yds of 30lb braid and generate 7-8lbs of drag yet it weighs almost 9 oz less than a 706. So why do we need a 22 oz ZB or VS with 300yds of 50lb braid to catch the same fish we used to catch on a 706? Maybe in the canal where the reel gets used as a winch and gears can strip, but everywhere else?

If you hook into a 60 pound fish which reel would you rather be using? For me it's the heavier VS or ZB with the 50# braid. I know that reel is probably overkill for 99% of the fish I'm going to hook and I could fish much more comfortably with a lighter setup but those fish that make up the 99% are not the ones I am really after. I try to keep that in mind everytime I am gearing up or deciding what to throw for the night.

[numbskull]

Personally I'd rather hook one on a newell 235 with 30# mono but that's just me.

I'd guess that most 50-60# fish caught from shore have been taken on a 706 and 20# mono. A VS or ZB is, I think, a substantially stronger reel than a 706. Whether a VS150 or Shimano 5000 is as strong as a 706 is arguable. Probably not given the weight difference, but since a 706 with 20# line would be fished with about 7 lbs of drag, a VS 150 and Stella 5000 are certainly strong enough to match that. If that worked for most guys landing 50-60 lb fish it is probably good enough for me.

Also, the limiting factor fighting large fish in my albeit limited experience is not so much the reel. It is much more the rod and, in rocks, leader length or line abrasion resistance. I've taken fish into the mid 40's with the stella 5000 and never been over matched, but I have had maybe larger fish I couldn't get in quickly enough because the rod (a 1201L) wasn't up to it.

Is it worth it to fish heavier tackle in case you hook the fish of a lifetime? I'm no longer so sure. Becoming a slave to the fear of losing a trophy has its costs. We all go through this phase, but most who fish long enough end up measuring success by how much fun they have out there, rather than the size of what they land or lose. Lightening up a bit adds a lot of fun if you can accept that sometimes the fish will beat you. Accepting that adds even more fun.

[numbskull]

Unless it sounds like I'm a light tackle purist, I'm not (although as a youth I was). I've fished lighter stuff more the past two years because of elbow issues and enjoyed it a lot. One of my favorite rods is, however, still a GSB1321M with a ZB25 and if I am at the canal or stuck in bad rocks that is what I'm carrying. The rod, however, is built nearly as light as can be done.

Thin braid has dismal abrasion resistance and powerful 11 ft rods balance poorly with small reels so if you are fishing in rocks where fish can't be allowed to run then big reels for the line capacity and powerful blanks certainly have a role.

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by numbskull

One of my favorite rods is, however, still a GSB1321M with a ZB25 and if I am at the canal or stuck in bad rocks that is what I'm carrying. The rod, however, is built nearly as light as can be done.

That is a fantastic set up. I have and older one that was built by someone on here. Super light build. I paired it with a ZB 27 for the line capacity though. Sensational combo and I used it for years until I got my Vapor Trails


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device