Quote:
Originally Posted by rphud
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Nothing wrong with these words, then or now. Seems very straight forward to me. Interpretations by many courts and individuals since then, well that can be very different story.
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right...so how do you get from those simple and straightforward words to "separation of church and state" ....or "Let's keep religion out of politics. It's in the constitution."
you mentioned the Supreme Court..do you know that in 1958, in a case called Baer v. Kolmorgen, one of the judges grew so tired of hearing the phrase that he wrote a dissent warning that if the court did not stop repeating the phrase "separation of church and state," people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution?
this was what he said...he agrees with you on the language of the constitution
"Much has been written in recent years concerning Thomas Jefferson's reference in 1802 to "a wall of separation between church and State." It is upon that "wall" that plaintiffs seek to build their case. Jefferson's figure of speech has received so much attention that one would almost think at times that it is to be found somewhere in our Constitution. Courts and authors have devoted numerous pages to its interpretation. This court has no intention of engaging in a dispute among
[14 Misc.2d 1020]
historians as to the meaning of a metaphor. The only language which we are called upon to interpret and apply is the plain language quoted above from the Federal and State Constitutions."
the problem is that the "let's keep religion out of politics crowd" would like very much to exclude folks with religious beliefs from influencing politics, government or government policy on the basis of those beliefs because they happen to disagree, we see it all the time.....that is how they interpret "separation of church and state" which they have supplanted for the simple and straightforward words you provided above. There is an enormous difference between limiting Congress from making laws regarding an establishment of religion and guaranteeing the free exercise of ....and "separation" of the two where you must leave your religion at the door when you enter the political arena or politics(at least for one half of the political spectrum) as Spence pointed out...
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