TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[Ed B]

Because recreational fisherman have so overwhelmingly been in favor of the one fish option, there have been discussions amongst recs advocating a boycott of the Party and Charter Boat Associations that are favoring the two fish option. With today's widespread communication capabilities along the coast it may just have some effect and if it's all about the money it would give the for-hire guys something to think about if they ostracize themselves from the recreational community.

Striped bass is a unique fishery to the recs and unlike other fisheries they've really got people's attention on this one.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Bill L

That's baloney, any charter worth his salt will put his client on large, much larger than 33 inches. One 30 lber is plenty, and they can keep catching all day and throwing them back. And if they need more meat, go for fluke, sea bass or scup, or stop at the fish market and buy them some fillets on top of the 400 dollar fee. And if you tell me you can't put your client on decent fish, that is an obvious sign the stock is in trouble
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Most of those "other " fish are not easily obtained on our side of the ditch .
As you guys are aware, bass move, they migrate, they don't stay in the same spot . We had days where you could get bass at Racepoint and the very next day they had moved outside the three-mile zone.
Just because a charter can't catch 2/33 inch fish for every client ,every day does not mean the bass are in trouble nor does it mean the captain is not "worth his salt " (a phrase you guys particularly enjoy)
It will be good if the charterboats get 2 fish then you guys can continue to point fingers . ( something else you seem to particularly enjoy )
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Slipknot]

a few more years of 2 fish being killed and there will not be any bass in the ditch or north of there either

time to sacrifice is now before it's too late

1 fish for all now, before it becomes no fish

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by Ed B

recs advocating a boycott of the Party and Charter Boat Associations that are favoring the two fish option. With today's widespread communication capabilities along the coast it may just have some effect

If this isn't pure petty jealousy, I don't know what is.
If you don't get your way, then you're going to boycott.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I said it once and I will say it again. This is really about charter captians and crew and SELLING bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's not against the law to sell charter caught bass.
However to your point, if the charter boats do not get 2 fish limit, there will be some sort of amended rule so they will be able to possess more then the 8 fish rec limit on commercial 15 fish days(Monday&thurs).
Right Now it's not an issue. they are allowed 16 fish with 8 guys.(15 can go to market)

If the rec limits on charter boats change to where they are only allowed 8 fish on a commercial day, you can bet there will be something coming to amend that from the commercial front.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Because recreational fisherman have so overwhelmingly been in favor of the one fish option, there have been discussions amongst recs advocating a boycott of the Party and Charter Boat Associations that are favoring the two fish option. With today's widespread communication capabilities along the coast it may just have some effect and if it's all about the money it would give the for-hire guys something to think about if they ostracize themselves from the recreational community.

Striped bass is a unique fishery to the recs and unlike other fisheries they've really got people's attention on this one.

Threats ??? Real class
I change my mind… When would you like to book the trip ??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Ed B]

Originally Posted by buckman

Threats ??? Real class
I change my mind… When would you like to book the trip ??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's a topic of conversation in circulation and it's not my idea. Not going fishing is not a threat. It's merely a decision not to lend financial support to a group that does not share a similar conservation ethic.

Thanks for the offer but I wouldn't like to book a trip.

[BasicPatrick]

FYI...the analysis of potential reduction in the below chart was not done in segments. It was a fishery wide analysis. To suggest that the same reductions will apply if this is pick and choose by subset of the is just inaccurate. No one has seen analysis of split regs. IT may not be possible.

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

[Ed B]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

If this isn't pure petty jealousy, I don't know what is.
If you don't get your way, then you're going to boycott.

There're plenty of Charter captains that do favor a one-fish option. They're not too popular with some of there associates right now but they have been speaking up commendably in the face of criticism. If you're going to take a charter it only seems logical to write your check out to someone who shares a similar attitude about the resource.

[BasicPatrick]

A lesson in history and a question at the end.

History: Three years ago Gulf of Maine advocates were in a similar argument. We needed a Haddock reduction and privates wanted a ten fish limit while the charter fleet was stating they must have unlimited bag limit to sell charters. The charter fleet won and we stayed at unlimited for the 2013 season. When the catch data came in we caught more than 200% of our quota. This is why, even though our haddock quota recently more than doubled we are only going to have a bag limit of less than 5 haddock in 2015.

Current SB debate: IF MA can analyze, predict and manage split regulations NOW then they can surely can do so after the fact when there is more data.

It is known that if the fishery does not make the required 25% reduction we will be required to adjust regs again and next time there WILL BE closures. In New England I think this will be closures during at least part of May or September.

QUESTION: Are the 2 fish for the charter fleet advocates on this page willing to agree to split accountability measures? If your risky reg does not work (just like what happened with haddock) will you agree now to follow the data you are selling now and put into regulation a guarantee of split accountability?

[MakoMike]

FYI, it looks like NY is going to opt for two fish, one in a 28-34 slot and another over 38 (or so) inches, for all recreational anglers.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Ed B

There're plenty of Charter captains that do favor a one-fish option. They're not too popular with some of there associates right now but they have been speaking up commendably in the face of criticism. If you're going to take a charter it only seems logical to write your check out to someone who shares a similar attitude about the resource.

A personal decision based on beliefs is one thing . An organized effort to put people out of business that don't agree with your certain group is wrong .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Bill L]

Un #^&#^&#^&#^&ing believable, you want to keep two schoolies because all the big fish moved to the eez. Nope, no issue with the stocks. And if there weren't issues with the stock, any charter that "doesn't suck" should have no trouble catching a decent fish. So the captain either sucks, or the stock is in trouble. So if you don't believe the stock is in trouble, well then you must suck
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

FYI, it looks like NY is going to opt for two fish, one in a 28-34 slot and another over 38 (or so) inches, for all recreational anglers.

Let me get this straight. The first fish can only be between. 28-34 inches and not above 38 and the second can only be over 38?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JLH]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

FYI, it looks like NY is going to opt for two fish, one in a 28-34 slot and another over 38 (or so) inches, for all recreational anglers.

Not as good as 1 @ 28" but not as bad as some of the options that have been mentioned. At least they have the same regulations for all recreation anglers (no special treatment for charters) and they offer some protection for larger fish with one of the fish needing to be under 34".

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Let me get this straight. The first fish can only be between. 28-34 inches and not above 38 and the second can only be over 38?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Doesn't sound right to me either .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[piemma]

Here's what I found:


STRIPED BASS (MARINE WATERS)

Length: 1 @ 28" - 40", a 2nd >40" Creel limit: 2 Season: April 15 - December 15
Special Conditions:
Marine Waters - South of George Washington Bridge. Recreational anglers may possess one striped bass between 28" and 40", and one additional striped bass over 40

[Nebe]

If that's the case, because the word "or" isn't in there, that means the first fish can only be a slot fish. And the second one can only be a trophy.

So you are screwed if your first fish is a 50 pounder.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[dannyplug1]

Congratulations, charter, for hires, commercials you are now free to eradicate the species. What are you going to destroy next? Cant get to fresh water its managed by the dept. of the interior not the dept. of commerce. Looks like the special interests will prevail over the will of the people.

[JLH]

Originally Posted by piemma

Here's what I found:


STRIPED BASS (MARINE WATERS)

Length: 1 @ 28" - 40", a 2nd >40" Creel limit: 2 Season: April 15 - December 15
Special Conditions:
Marine Waters - South of George Washington Bridge. Recreational anglers may possess one striped bass between 28" and 40", and one additional striped bass over 40

Those are the current (2014) NY regulations. They have had a slot fish and a "trophy" fish for awhile.

Sounds like New York's proposal for 2015 is one fish between 28 - 34" and one fish over 38" (or whatever length ASMFC will agree gives them the 25% reduction).

[Ed B]

Originally Posted by buckman

A personal decision based on beliefs is one thing . An organized effort to put people out of business that don't agree with your certain group is wrong .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Every individual has the right and final say to spend his money as he sees fit. We have had an organized effort here in RI by the Party and Charter Boat Assn to hold a private meeting with our state rep without anyone else's knowledge or notification. This is still a representative democracy where the majority elects the representatives to make the laws. Not a private club of lobbyists.

The tackle shops and tackle dealers that make their money and employ people by serving the inshore and shore fishing sectors have been hurt financially, the fly shops and guides have been hurt or are out of business, and a good number of Charter captain's see a stronger long term business plan with the one-fish option. These groups see the push for a two-fish option as a near-sighted organized effort during private meetings putting them out of business as a byproduct of the speculation of a quick buck.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

QUESTION: Are the 2 fish for the charter fleet advocates on this page willing to agree to split accountability measures? If your risky reg does not work (just like what happened with haddock) will you agree now to follow the data you are selling now and put into regulation a guarantee of split accountability?

It is my understanding based on the asmfc's math, that the only difference between option A&B is a small percentage.
Whereas one option is giving a 31% outcome and the other has a 29% outcome.
Now I understand that there will be mathematical differences if one group picks a different option than another group. so lets call it a 10% or maybe even 15% difference in that case.
If what your asking is will the "special group" live and die by the percentage difference they opted for? then I don't see why not.
However If you are equating 2 fish as a 100% increase and difference based on simply that 2 is 100% more than 1, Then no.
We all agree that 2 fish is more than 1 fish, but based on the options we are shown, it is not the same percentage.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by JLH

Those are the current (2014) NY regulations. They have had a slot fish and a "trophy" fish for awhile.

Sounds like New York's proposal for 2015 is one fish between 28 - 34" and one fish over 38" (or whatever length ASMFC will agree gives them the 25% reduction).

Sorry. I assume the new regs have not been published.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

If this isn't pure petty jealousy, I don't know what is.
If you don't get your way, then you're going to boycott.

Kind of what you said about the site
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

FY No one has seen analysis of split regs. IT may not be possible.

isn't this an example of the split regs?
http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...3&d=1420829068

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Kind of what you said about the site
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Kind of.

[dannyplug1]

Bottom line killing two fish is worse for the population than killing one. It seems obvious to anyone who is not going to profit from the death/ harvesting of those fish. As Winston Churchill put it "there are lies, dammed lies, and statistics." Those who hide behind those stats are not fooling anyone

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Let me get this straight. The first fish can only be between. 28-34 inches and not above 38 and the second can only be over 38?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No one said first fish has to be in the slot, the first fish could be the trophy and the second fish in the slot. Besides, as a practical matter, there would be no practical way to enforce it, if the first fish had to be the slot fish.

[JoeG@Breezy]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

FYI, it looks like NY is going to opt for two fish, one in a 28-34 slot and another over 38 (or so) inches, for all recreational anglers.

Regarding NY...MRAC looks like it's going that way as a recommendation...if the science says it works. Note that the above 28-34 vs 28-40 and 36,37, 38 or even 40 min depending on the scientists vs 40+ (existing reg) is basically no change. So if they say 10-20-30% reduction you know they are smoking something ! Then ASMFC has to weigh the advice. If it goes 2 fish anywhere and less than 25% on catch not quota we are all going Bluefishing sooner than planned.

[JoeG@Breezy]

One more note on this subject. The "certainty" or degree of accuracy on all of the split proposals goes way down. So the 50% chance of overall success is gone and we are left with a WAG.
So that's what the math will be.