The Oscars

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

DZ, you have it wrong. They are asking for equal rights,meaning the same as men. Comparing this to a Middle East scenario is not exactly insightful. Have women's rights improved? Of course. Are they on equal ground as men? Not even close.
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In what way are women's rights not on par with men, exactly?

The whole "gender pay gap" theory has been completely debunked. Yes, women earn less than men, on average. Liberals claim that alone, is proof of sexism. But the fact is, women work less hours than men, and are much more likely to put their career on hold to spoend time at home, than men. When you normalize for that, the pay gap disappears, it does not exist. Women who work tons of hours make the same as men who work tons of hours. WOmen who leave at 3:00 every day to meet the school bus, make the same as men who leave at 3:00 every day to meet the school bus. There is no pay gap when you remove the hours worked discrepancy. It's as fair as it can be. Those who outwork their peers, regardless of gender, will get ahead.

Now, in Hollywood, there probably are a lot less opportunities for women, because like it or not, that industry is based on looks, and women get pushed out faster than men. If women don't like that, no one is forcing them to work in Hollywood. If you're a woman, and you want to make a living in the movies, you know what you are signing up for.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

In what way are women's rights not on par with men, exactly?

The whole "gender pay gap" theory has been completely debunked. Yes, women earn less than men, on average. Liberals claim that alone, is proof of sexism. But the fact is, women work less hours than men, and are much more likely to put their career on hold to spoend time at home, than men. When you normalize for that, the pay gap disappears, it does not exist. Women who work tons of hours make the same as men who work tons of hours. WOmen who leave at 3:00 every day to meet the school bus, make the same as men who leave at 3:00 every day to meet the school bus. There is no pay gap when you remove the hours worked discrepancy. It's as fair as it can be. Those who outwork their peers, regardless of gender, will get ahead.

Now, in Hollywood, there probably are a lot less opportunities for women, because like it or not, that industry is based on looks, and women get pushed out faster than men. If women don't like that, no one is forcing them to work in Hollywood. If you're a woman, and you want to make a living in the movies, you know what you are signing up for.

As usual Jim your opinion is valuable but it is also a load of crap

The myth you speak of is more reality than your research unveiled. Unless of course you live in Denmark where women earn 2% more than men in equal circumstances. Next in line come Norway and Singapore where women are compensated at an 80% rate in the wage comparison. The U.S. however is ranked 65th in the world with a generous 66% rate that just climbed 1% in 2014. These numbers were provided by CNN but I hope you get the idea that you could not be more wrong,
As usual.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

As usual Jim your opinion is valuable but it is also a load of crap

The myth you speak of is more reality than your research unveiled. Unless of course you live in Denmark where women earn 2% more than men in equal circumstances. Next in line come Norway and Singapore where women are compensated at an 80% rate in the wage comparison. The U.S. however is ranked 65th in the world with a generous 66% rate that just climbed 1% in 2014. These numbers were provided by CNN but I hope you get the idea that you could not be more wrong,
As usual.
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But it's not that simple. If all thye female accountants at the big six firms earn 20% less than men (making that up), that does not mean you can say "women get paid less than men". In this country, at this time in our history, men tend to be more focused onm their careers than women. I have never seen a study that, when normalized for that difference, showed a meaningful discrepancy.

You can't just compare average salaries for men vs women, you need to "normalize" (math term) to make the comparison apples to apples.

If you had taken the time to post any of your surveys, I would guess that they are simply comparing average pay for men and women. Here are surveys which show that, when you remove the justifiable differences in pay that result when one gender takes on a large share of household responsibilities, the "gender pay gap" disappears. Don't take my word for it, here are but a few...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ge-gap/276367/ - "It might be the most famous statistic about female workers in the United States: Women earn "only 72 percent as much as their male counterparts. It's also famously false."

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba766 - "Comparing single childless women to single childless men, ages 35-43, the wage gap not only disappears, but instead becomes a wage premium. Nevertheless, Americans are likely to hear much about the much-exaggerated wage gap during the election campaign."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...83752909957472 - "Once education, marital status and occupations are considered, the 'gender wage gap' all but disappears."

http://www.slate.com/articles/double...ery_man_s.html - "The official Bureau of Labor Department statistics show that the median earnings of full-time female workers is 77 percent of the median earnings of full-time male workers. But that is very different than “77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men.” "“Full time” officially means 35 hours, but men work more hours than women. That’s the first problem: We could be comparing men working 40 hours to women working 35."

"you could not be more wrong,"

It's not "me". You are saying that Obama's Bureau Of Labor Statistics, in addition to the Wall Street Journal and the National Association of Certified Public Accountants, are all wrong.

Let's see that CNN study? If it simply shows that all women who work "full time" earn 77% of what "men who work full time" earn, that is bullsh*t. If yuo can show me that women who work the same number of hours at the same job as men, still earn substantially less, then you have a point.

If there's a gender pay gap, I want to fix it. But the simple fact that "women get paid less than men" doesn't even come close to establishing that theory. Sorry if that spits in th eface of yoru agenda. I'm not reacting to ideology here, just the facts I posted (and I could have posted dozens more).

Try making that wrong.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's not "me". You are saying that Obama's Bureau Of Labor Statistics, in addition to the Wall Street Journal and the National Association of Certified Public Accountants, are all wrong.

Let's see that CNN study? If it simply shows that all women who work "full time" earn 77% of what "men who work full time" earn, that is bullsh*t. If yuo can show me that women who work the same number of hours at the same job as men, still earn substantially less, then you have a point.

If there's a gender pay gap, I want to fix it. But the simple fact that "women get paid less than men" doesn't even come close to establishing that theory. Sorry if that spits in th eface of yoru agenda. I'm not reacting to ideology here, just the facts I posted (and I could have posted dozens more).

Try making that wrong.

The editorials you posted are meaningless and the fact you cite an Obama hack disgusts me. This is not a discussion about men earning more than women, it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs. Show me one article that shows that to be the case for employees who have higher education in this country and 10 will come contradicting that. My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA.

Please decide to keep your dignity and never use an Obama crony as leverage again.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The editorials you posted are meaningless and the fact you cite an Obama hack disgusts me. This is not a discussion about men earning more than women, it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs. Show me one article that shows that to be the case for employees who have higher education in this country and 10 will come contradicting that. My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA.

Please decide to keep your dignity and never use an Obama crony as leverage again.
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I don't think the equal pay thing is truly a question of "rights." There is no natural or "unalienable" right to equal pay. And the legalized, government mandated equal pay thing was settled by the Equal Pay Act of 1963. If a women is discriminated by lesser pay for equal work in equal job with equal skill, she can sue and win. And she could be granted a sizable sum, which most employers probably would not want to be liable for.

I am not sure what government can do in terms of rights, if women don't sue, except to create a separate agency with thousands of marshals to constantly monitor business in the country.

Where problems exist, they might be more a cultural issue than a rights issue.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't think the equal pay thing is truly a question of "rights." There is no natural or "unalienable" right to equal pay. And the legalized, government mandated equal pay thing was settled by the Equal Pay Act of 1963. If a women is discriminated by lesser pay for equal work in equal job with equal skill, she can sue and win. And she could be granted a sizable sum, which most employers probably would not want to be liable for.

I am not sure what government can do in terms of rights, if women don't sue, except to create a separate agency with thousands of marshals to constantly monitor business in the country.

Where problems exist, they might be more a cultural issue than a rights issue.

The Constitution says it's illegal to discriminate based on gender. If that pay gap actually existed, women could sue, and would win. The fact that Gloria Allred isn't involved exclusively in those lawsuits, tells me that it's not a real issue.

From what I have seen, the only statistic that shows women earn less tahn men, is if you compare all women to all men, which ignores the fact that men work more hours and are far more likely to pursue the most lucrative professions. Those professions don't have gender-based barriers to entry. It just reflects free choices that women in our clulture make.

Sea Dangles, you say you are a pro-choice Republican. If women earn less solely because they freely choose to work less hours, or because they freely choose less lucrative professions, I'd think you'd be celebrating their ability to make the choices that are the right fit for them.

Here's another article, written by a woman, who presumably would not be happy if there was an actual gender pay gap...this is a good read, takes 2 minutes...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...than-men.html#

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The editorials you posted are meaningless and the fact you cite an Obama hack disgusts me. This is not a discussion about men earning more than women, it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs. Show me one article that shows that to be the case for employees who have higher education in this country and 10 will come contradicting that. My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA.

Please decide to keep your dignity and never use an Obama crony as leverage again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs"

Correct, that should be the focus. And in what should be good news for you, when we look at pay by gender through that lens, there is no pay gap in any study I have ever seen. When you compare comparable groups of men and women (same occupation, working same hours, with same experience), pay between men and women isn't menaingfully different.

If you could post a study showing that women earn less than comparable men, that would be helpful.

"My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA." Then presumably you think they are reputable organizations, and you might give credibility to their conclusion that there is no gender pay gap in this country, when you look at comparable groups of men and women.

Yes, men who are hedge fund managers will earn more than women who work at a daycare center. But the national association of cpa's says that when you look at comparable occupations and experience, men and women earn virtually the same pay.

Your two posts seem contradictory, I now can't tell if you htink there is a pay gap or not. Allow me to settle it for you. There isn't.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The editorials you posted are meaningless and the fact you cite an Obama hack disgusts me. This is not a discussion about men earning more than women, it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs. Show me one article that shows that to be the case for employees who have higher education in this country and 10 will come contradicting that. My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA.

Please decide to keep your dignity and never use an Obama crony as leverage again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"it is more focused on equal pay for equal jobs"

Correct, that should be the focus. And in what should be good news for you, when we look at pay by gender through that lens, there is no pay gap in any study I have ever seen. When you compare comparable groups of men and women (same occupation, working same hours, with same experience), pay between men and women isn't menaingfully different.

If you could post a study showing that women earn less than comparable men, that would be helpful.

"My better half has been an accountant for 25 years and a childhood friend is a former president of NCPA." Then presumably you think they are reputable organizations, and you might give credibility to their conclusion that there is no gender pay gap in this country, when you look at comparable groups of men and women.

Yes, men who are hedge fund managers will earn more than women who work at a daycare center. But the national association of cpa's says that when you look at comparable occupations and experience, men and women earn virtually the same pay.

Your two posts seem contradictory, I now can't tell if you think there is a pay gap or not. Allow me to settle it for you. There isn't. Not according to the dozens of studies I could post. I posted data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics to show that even Obama's own data suggests there is no pay gap, so maybe he should get off that soap box and concern himself with problems that, you know, actually exist.