RI Governor Supporting 2 Fish Options: Email Campaign NOW

[dannyplug1]

By evolving I mean this. If a charter operator is just selling dead fis he or she is doomed to fail. Charter boat operators must learn to sell the experience of fishing.
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[ivanputski]

Its so unbelievable that some view selling a striped-bass charter trip as "a fun, adventurous experience" as a challenging uphill battle.

its too damn easy... requires such a minimal shift in marketing. minimal.
I already have several strategies in mind (if i were a charter captain). How did I come up with these ideas? BY THINKING LIKE A CUSTOMER instead of captain.

I'm not really sure anymore if these discussions we are having are indicative of most charter captain's view, or of the views of a very few particular individuals who have lost hope and have already bought into their future failure before trying.

Attitude is everything.

[MAKAI]

A call girl sells the experience.
A hooker sells the meat.
Just saying. ....☺
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[buckman]

I'm not . I'm for a reduction equal to yours . 25%
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[piemma]

Here is the response I received from the letter I wrote to the RI Governor:

Dear Paul,



Thank you for contacting Governor Raimondo’s office regarding striped bass regulations. We appreciate you taking the time to reach out.



Striped bass are very important to Rhode Island and our fishermen. Governor Raimondo has been seeking input from the Department of Environmental Management on the issue, and understands the significance of the Department’s pending regulatory decision. DEM has received many public comments, which have been incorporated into the public record. Yesterday the RI Marine Fisheries Council met to formulate a recommendation to the DEM Director. The Director will then make the final decision.



Thanks again for reaching out. As always we welcome your thoughts, ideas, and concerns and encourage you to share them with us.



Sincerely,





Brad Inman

Director of Constituent Services

Office of Governor Gina M. Raimondo

State House, Room 115

Providence, RI 02903

(401) 222-2080

[Clammer]

everyone got the same form letter back ..........they could have sent it to us last week / this descion was decided way before any of the so called meeting for the general public .. the 5-3 vote by the council all that did was make Coits life easier // if it went the other way .. she would have had to either vetoed it or looked for another job

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Clammer

everyone got the same form letter back ..........they could have sent it to us last week / this descion was decided way before any of the so called meeting for the general public .. the 5-3 vote by the council all that did was make Coits life easier // if it went the other way .. she would have had to either vetoed it or looked for another job

I agree Mike but ya gotta try.

[Clammer]

iI know Paul . we all tried .......... but MONEY talks & B ull S hit walks

[DZ]

I know many of you are frustrated, rightly so. But our arguments and public comments were not good enough to turn the vote - consider that the three members who voted to oppose 2 fish were two recreational fishermen and a Rod & Reel commercial fisherman. And one of those two recs appeared that he supported 2 fish but without the capt and mate allowed to keep any. I don't believe he or the R&R Comm would have supported one fish - they were looking for the compromise formerly endorsed by RISAA. So basically we had only 1 member, Rich Hittinger, supporting 1 fish. The five members who voted to support two fish were a member of the Party & Charter boat association, a Professor of Fisheries, an Environmental Engineer, a Shell Fisherman, and a Gill Netter. At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by DZ

At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

DZ, not that it makes any difference but I smirked with that one.

I was noting though that when the board asked for a motion, and both Richards raised hands to make a motion, the one chosen was the Richard of the RI Party / Charter group supporting the motion for 2 fish. If the council chair had asked the other Richard, the one supporting the Rec position, the motion *might* have been the 1 fish, which would have needed a second and the follow on debate. That other possible motion would have probably failed anyway due to the makeup of the council.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by DZ

I know many of you are frustrated, rightly so. But our arguments and public comments were not good enough to turn the vote - consider that the three members who voted to oppose 2 fish were two recreational fishermen and a Rod & Reel commercial fisherman. And one of those two recs appeared that he supported 2 fish but without the capt and mate allowed to keep any. I don't believe he or the R&R Comm would have supported one fish - they were looking for the compromise formerly endorsed by RISAA. So basically we had only 1 member, Rich Hittinger, supporting 1 fish. The five members who voted to support two fish were a member of the Party & Charter boat association, a Professor of Fisheries, an Environmental Engineer, a Shell Fisherman, and a Gill Netter. At one point of the meeting the Gill Netter looked at me and asked, "How many people would come to RI to just catch one fish?" Normally council members are not permitted to have exchanges with the audience. I couldn't believe he asked the question - so I responded, "Plenty". Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass". I was shocked and would have loved the opportunity to answer but thought better of it.
Crazy night.

The law wouldn't have been to allow you to CATCH one bass. It would be to KILL one bass. These stupid bastards cannot differentiate between catching and killing. I assume that catch & release doesn't compute in their myopic brains.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by DZ

Then a Charter Captain from the audience looked at me and asked me, "Would you pay me $700 to catch one bass".

He meant kill obviously. I would have responded that if I was trying to get my monies worth of meat, I would go to the store.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He meant kill obviously. I would have responded that if I was trying to get my monies worth of meat, I would go to the store.

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
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The charter captain is the one who made the asinine comment about 1 bass & $700 as if you don't get your $ worth at 1 fish but that extra fish makes the difference.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by buckman

To some, me included there is a certain amount of satisfaction in catching it ,cleaning it ,grilling it ,and eating it
It's also nice to know how fresh the fish you are eating are and not some striper, as you would say, that's been baking in the sun for two days waiting for a commercial day
Don't be so damn dismissive
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Doesn't cleaning one fish satiate that craving?
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Doesn't cleaning one fish satiate that craving?
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Good point
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[Bill L]

One fish no way, but two fish is so totally worth it
/sarcasm
What a bunch of BS
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[buckman]

I'm just curious as to what you guys put as the percentage of dead fish for caught and released striped bass?
Especially you guys that use live bait ?
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[ivanputski]

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

From what I've read it's between 8 and 15% for all hooked stripers ...that's no small figure when you think of the millions of fish caught and released by recreational anglers. We are talking in the hundreds of thousands of killed fish . If you're really worried about your children growing up in a world with no striped bass maybe you should quit fishing for them and go catch scup.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

From what I've read it's between 8 and 15% for all hooked stripers ...that's no small figure when you think of the millions of fish caught and released by recreational anglers. here's an idea, we could limit the number of recreational licenses issued and that would force recs to fish on charterboats, the only place you can fish without buying a license, helping improve the business environment of the for hires and the "client" can then keep two fish that they never would have been able to keep if they did get a license like the average schmuck....they can still fish as much as they want...it will just be REALLY expensive, like parts of EuropeWe are talking in the hundreds of thousands of killed fish . If you're really worried about your children growing up in a world with no striped bass maybe you should quit fishing for them and go catch scup.
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you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by iamskippy

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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I agree
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

I can not honestly say, with any certainty, how many fish that are released
end up dying... no one can.

But I can however say, with certainty, that 100% of the fish that are not released end up dying.

That is a statement that simply can not be argued...

But you don't catch any fish bc you don't move off your rock.

[striperswiper75]

15% is still less than 100%
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperswiper75

15% is still less than 100%
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there is no 100% percent it's 85%
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[striperswiper75]

Originally Posted by buckman

there is no 100% percent it's 85%
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No....dead fish are 100% dead....
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[striperswiper75]

I emailed the Governor yesterday about this topic. I got the form letter reply from Brad Inman. I mentioned to the Governor that should RI adopt the 2 fish exemption for the for hire community; I would no longer be fishing in RI, I am a CT resident. I may only be one angler but for 4 of the past 5 years I have let a week long trip to Block Island with anywhere from 4-14 anglers staying at different house rentals on the island. Between the rental, the ferry cost, car ferry, gas, food and on island spending; that is a fairly decent loss for the State. RI will also lose my money from summer camping trips to Burlingame. Again not a huge impact, but I guess I will either keep that money local or divert it to MA instead.
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[MAKAI]

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Question for you Buck ?
We're you fishing for bass in the early to mid 80's ?
Just curious.
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I am betting not. If he were he would have a different take on the situation. While not as bad as then, we are surely headed in the direction of a moratorium. My money is on 2017.