RI Governor Supporting 2 Fish Options: Email Campaign NOW

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are pretty smart Buck, this is a great way of looking at it, our effect as individuals, personal responsibility....

the number used is actually 9% for mortality,

I'm sure that you'll agree that both private rec and for hires experience mortality and I'd argue it's much more difficult to effectively release fish from a boat than from shore....gaffs, live lining pogies, dropping eels, trolling umbrella rigs(multiple fish) all more popular with the boat crowd(they aren't throwing plugs or bucktails from a party boat and they don't gaff every fish from shore)

here's the part regarding the charter that you may or may not like or accept but the guy driving the boat is responsible for every fish caught or killed from his boat....the fact is that if he was not driving the boat none of those fish would be killed or caught, none of his clients would take a fish if he didn't drive them there and bait their hook on that trip and thus impact the population ....

I don't know what you think the average charter boat takes per year in terms of bass but can was use low numbers and say 4 of the maximum 6 clients get two fish, discount the mate and captain fish for now...that's 8 fish per trip, can we use 100 trips, had a "full time" captain say he did 100 last year and he said that was low due to weather. That's 800 fish (conservatively). If any of these numbers seem out of line I understand...I'm not an "expert"...just like to ask obvious questions. Can we also assume a mortality for released under size and over limit fish? Can we assume that they catch don't keep at least as many as they keep? Call the mortality 10% to keep the numbers easy...80 fish mortality...that's 880 fish very conservatively over the season that this one captain has overseen the taking of, or in my opinion"is responsible for" as I pointed out, they never would have been caught by those individuals without him driving the boat.

I'm going to use myself just to be as accurate as possible it obviously varies from one angler to another, I fish more than most average private/shore recs...(I love catching, filleting and grilling fish by the way), I'll include the bass that I kept last year as well as all of the bass that the people that I fished with last year in the totals and I'll overestimate regarding catch(that''s what fishermen do) and mortality...... although I do place more emphasis each year learning and improving catch techniques and release methods to improve this and many folks that I fish with do also.

So, I don't know exactly how many trips last year but if I use 100 bass landed that would be high. I didn't keep any bass but three friends that I fish with did. One was big and the other two were 28-30 inches, I can't remember the last time I fished with someone who took 2 bass. so that's 3 bass...plus mortality 10% that 10 fish...13 bass

so it would take me
and the folks that I fished with last year... approx. 68 years to remove the number of fish that the guy above did with his boat...

and here's the thing, those guys probably won't keep any next year...many private and shore recs ARE moving to other species (scup) and methods including freshwater, other sports even, I talk to them every day, many private/shore recs move in and out of the sport and are anything but consistent in their impact

if you want to compare on an individual basis, sure, there are more private and shore recs but the impact on an "individual" basis is not even close and I think most look it or compare on an individual basis

additionally, your average shore, private rec is far less likely to be locating and taking the large breeders with a few exceptions whereas they are targeted by the experienced and more accessible to boats in general....the impact mushrooms when you include experience, electronics, actual time on the water...a guided charter allows someone who would likely never impact the fishery on their own, to do it in ways that most other anglers either can't or won't...that to me is a special responsibility that the captain bears many times a season...

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by iamskippy

Interesting spin Scott thanks for sharing.
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I agree
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

I agree
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happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$"

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

happy to work with your numbers if you have any, it's a perspective, we all look at the fishery differently, that is obvious, you are quick to discount any perspective that disagrees with your's without providing much evidence...are you incapable of understanding how an average rec might look at or see this? I was told by a captain that if you aren't one, you don't know sh$#....is that how it works? can't figure out if I'm an "expert" or I "don't know sh%$"

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28,and we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you.
Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler .
And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charterboats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^&
BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

I understand how an average rec looks at this Scott . is what follows your "understanding"?

You either believe that allowing charterboats to keep 2 fish at 33 inches is not the equivalent of one at 28, it's not, you should reread what you just wroteand we can agree there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) . shame on them

Or you're just angry that somebody might get more fish than you. not angry, just concerned about the fish, not who gets what


Or you really believe that solving the perceived crisis for striped bass will come from limiting charterboats to one fish per angler . I believe that limiting all rec anglers to 1 bass now and into the future will help ensure and maintain a healthy population


And you either believe that one at 28 inches will not hurt charter boats or you simply don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& I just have not seen any actual evidence that this is the case(the first part, if I didn't give a bleep I wouldn't bother)


BTW I saw mortality rates between 9% and 30% I picked low middle for my argument you chose as low as you could get I used the exact number the was used for the meeting the other night by the Fisheries Council ...9%
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you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client




you know I love you....right?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

you can divide my numbers in half for the charter and double the others if it makes you feel better what's that, approx 30 years?...

all this keeping in mind that plenty of charters up and down the coast are doing fine and believe they will continue to do fine at 1 bass per client

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

There are different types of charters that fish different waters with different techniques with different clientele and with different size boats. One of my hunting partners is a flyfishing guide. Believe me we don't think the same on this issue.
He only fishes on bluebird days , In shallow water and trailers his boat to the fish. Apples to oranges.
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so different "clientele" should get different bag limits depending on what they "want" ? ohhh...that's right...immigration.... that is the gist of the argument that you've finally arrived at....there are some clients(if it's really them)...read the letters, who claim they will lose interest in the fishery during their occasional trips to the state if they can't kill two bass(or have the perception of the ability to do so I guess) and for that reason we should create an exception for the entire sector creating all sorts of havoc ....good thing we all don't think that way.....you are right...I don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& about them....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

there will be more discarded fish from charterboats if it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
there will be more discarded fish from shore/private boats now that it is one at 28, ( that one fish now becomes a trophy fish) .
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can we believe that this occurs among the same people with 2@ currently? maybe not as frequently as it would at 1@ but with 4-6 people on a boat you've got a good number of fish to go through at 1@ before you start "high grading".... is that what they call it? if you start "high grading" after 4-6 bass on the boat(plus the captain and mate(s) fish) so that's what? 6-8 bass....you're kind of a &^%$

had a someone tell me recently that on a tog trip last fall they had 36 tog on the boat and a guy caught a 37th which was very big...an argument ensued over whether he should or could keep the 37th...regulations will never fix stupid or greedy...............the mouthpiece for the RI charters is arguing that most of our stocks are "rebuilt" and they are looking for higher limits and fighting 1@ for bass and I'd heard desiring mode splits on other species as well, I'm convinced that if there were no bag limits they would fish till the boat was full or the fish stopped biting in many cases....you'd think that they would be happy that they can put their clients on fish and keep their rods bent with relative ease...but nope...it's all about how many they can kill...maybe if we eliminate bag limits all together we can discourage "high grading"

[puppet]

Thanks ScottW for your perseverance in these threads.

I can only speak for myself. I do care about the striped bass and
really the whole fishery. My fish counts were wildly low this past
year. Not just striped bass but bycatch like bluefish and fluke.

I am a fisherman and without the fish, I feel like a lost child. I fish
mostly from the surf. Last year many of my outings were just
casting practice.

I live in western CT and often travel to fish. I fish in RI, CT, MA, and NY.
My motivation to do these trips is shot. It also means I will not be
spending my money in any of those states.

Many many fisherman travel to fish.

I am not a political person. I don't spend any time or effort in
anything government related. I guess you could say that I don't
have the patience for it, but am really thankful for those who do.

Reading the outcome of the legislation is really upsetting to me.
Even the short sightedness of a 1 fish limit. Really it should be zero.

The government agencies that manage our environmental resources
have failed us all. The fact that their opinion can be swayed by
commercial beings just shows how corrupt and unqualified they really
are at managing natural resources. Shouldn't environmental
resource concerns be separated from the economy?

I am limiting my fishing this year. I might only fish a couple of weeks
in the surf. Really, I feel the couple trips I am planning are more out
of nostalgia than I expect or even care to catch fish. My local waters
in the western sound have been a ghostland, and I will not be fishing
them at all this year. I intend to not target the spring holdovers,
migration, or spawn. I am trying my best not to be a hypocrite, but
at the same time...I just want to fish.

Regarding the charter captains out there and your concern for
personal economics. Any sort of acceleration in the thinning of the
fishery stocks is bound to catch up with you.

You may have the attitude....who cares about the surfcaster. Well, I
tend to hire charters when I go on my outings. If there are no fish in
the surf, I am not making trips and I am not hiring you. I am not
spending money in your hotels and restaurants. I am not upgrading
or buying any more tackle and supporting your local business.

I fished the week during the MV derby and also fished Block Island
and Montauk during the fall run. These places were ghost towns.
Void of fish, void of surfcasters. Just two years ago, montauk was
crawling with thousands of surfcasters. I love fishing Newport, but
didn't bother last year because reports were so bad.

The economic impact related to the slow of the fishery is so much
larger than some stupid argument between whether a boat can keep
one or two fish. Really, we should be in moratorium for the sake of
the fish, the sport, and the local business.

We should be fighting together for this fishery not against eachother.