HR 4269

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

read the facts from the 2005 law it's not nearly as simple as you state...the reason for the "exemption" as you call it was because gun manufacturers were being treated "differently" by these cities and counties...these cities would never sue a car manufacturer because drivers misused their cars....the gun manufacturers sought protection....what would you have them do?

No, the NRA's argument was that the gun manufacturers didn't have the financial resources to respond to the civil lawsuits, which by the way, weren't about liability around the use of the gun as much as the gun makers responsibility (or irresponsibility) for how they market and track sales of weapons.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

No, the NRA's argument was that the gun manufacturers didn't have the financial resources to respond to the civil lawsuits, which by the way, weren't about liability around the use of the gun as much as the gun makers responsibility (or irresponsibility) for how they market and track sales of weapons.

no, the lawsuits were bullying tactics by thugs...comply or we'll put you out of business....I can quote a couple of mayors who said essentially that, in fact...of course that was their argument as destroying them through litigation was the stated goal

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by spence

No, the NRA's argument was that the gun manufacturers didn't have the financial resources to respond to the civil lawsuits, which by the way, weren't about liability around the use of the gun as much as the gun makers responsibility (or irresponsibility) for how they market and track sales of weapons.

Gun manufacturers fought hard against a regulation that would require additional sets of serial numbers in hidden locations on guns because it would cost too much.
Trouble is some of the guns used to kill people, including police officers have these serial numbers erased or removed and can't be traced, so killers can't be brought to justice.
Some of these victims families find it irresponsible of gun companies, why deny them the right to be heard in court.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Gun manufacturers fought hard against a regulation that would require additional sets of serial numbers in hidden locations on guns because it would cost too much.
Trouble is some of the guns used to kill people, including police officers have these serial numbers erased or removed and can't be traced, so killers can't be brought to justice.
Some of these victims families find it irresponsible of gun companies, why deny them the right to be heard in court.

Yea, but that would just make it easier to tell which shops are selling guns that find their way into cop killers hands...

Oh wait.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, but that would just make it easier to tell which shops are selling guns that find their way into cop killers hands...

Oh wait.

And how about ghost guns that are made with no serial number or even with a serial number of a legal gun. It's the people who misuse the guns that are to blame. If I use a Bic lighter to set a home on fire killing the people inside should Bic be held responsible?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

And how about ghost guns that are made with no serial number or even with a serial number of a legal gun. It's the people who misuse the guns that are to blame. If I use a Bic lighter to set a home on fire killing the people inside should Bic be held responsible?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ed it is required by law that the "ghost gun" be engraved to NFA standards when it is "ready to fire ". The ability for a person to manufacture a firearm is what people who are against firearms call "ghost guns". This is just another whole thread of lets blame the gun, not the criminal who steals it ,or the criminal that illegally removes the serial number or the criminal that uses it to commit murder. Lets blame something other than the person using it.
MA requires a citizen to complete a firearms safety course ,from there the applicant must pass a federal and state background check. Then it is up to the chief of police. After all that you may be issued a license to carry. As for any other useless bull#^&#^&#^&#^&? No thanks, I've passed all of it already. Don't like them ? Don't go near them, end of story. But to fabricate more redundant regulations is foolish.

[nightfighter]

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.

Written when to of the line firearm was a single shot musket....

I'm with DZ (and gulp, I agree with Dangles). CCW for self defense, sure. Hunting rifles, shotguns for hunting or home protection. Absolutely.

I think there is a limit where at minimum for some types of firearms a special permit beyond is required, I think to me, that is not denying someone there right, but does place some restrictions that hopefully keep some out of the wrong hands. A common theme in a lot of these instances is mental health.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Written when to of the line firearm was a single shot musket....

I'm with DZ (and gulp, I agree with Dangles). CCW for self defense, sure. Hunting rifles, shotguns for hunting or home protection. Absolutely.

I think there is a limit where at minimum for some types of firearms a special permit beyond is required, I think to me, that is not denying someone there right, but does place some restrictions that hopefully keep some out of the wrong hands. A common theme in a lot of these instances is mental health.

You people don't get it
It's not about the type, kind or size of the arms referred to in the 2nd amendment , it is to give the right to the people to protect themselves from the government. Have you heard of the federal employees like homeland security who were asked if they were told to fire upon the American people, would they? And when a negative answer given those were fired ? This is our government over stepping their bounds.
I will not hide my head in the sand
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

And how about ghost guns that are made with no serial number or even with a serial number of a legal gun. It's the people who misuse the guns that are to blame. If I use a Bic lighter to set a home on fire killing the people inside should Bic be held responsible?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So, I am not a gun owner, and am admittedly a bit naive on the process. As a sportsman I have a lot of friends that hunt and support that right, and the right to carry if you feel the need.

What I want to know, and Andy and Ross, educate me. How DO so many guns get into the wrong hands? I don't just mean the mentally ill, but the gang bangers etc.. where do they come from?

Straw purchases (i.e. San Bernadino)?
Illegal imports (i.e. the 'Irish' on Sons of Anarchy)
Stolen? (from where? Homes? Factories?)
Secret manufacturing plants?
The so-called gun show loop holes?

How do we deal with this without restricting your rights?

[nightfighter]

My opinion is that majority are stolen and traded through black market. The registration of existing guns has a horrendous track record, which is slowly being addressed. But there are a great many guns in the hands/homes of an older generation that aren't offering them up for registration. Many, I believe, slip through the cracks in the subsequent "transfer" of weapons after an owner dies. I am handling one for a family now. Deceased was formerly a FFL. So far, I have taken possession (ie. removed from the house) 34 firearms. Police captain pulled up the record, and his PIN for me, in order to transfer. Only had three weapons registered..... Three. We still have two safes and the attic to explore as well....
Background checks? I am good with that. Mass seems to do a decent job with that. I think my Class A took just under three months to process. My twins are annoyed that I wont take them out shooting until they take the safety course with a certified instructor.... (My fault for taking them out once with a sporting shotgun and now saying we can't go shoot handguns.) And is the current safety course enough? Probably not. But these are the areas; background checks, registration, and training that need to be addressed. Not banning the weapons, and certainly not rewriting the Constitution.

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

My opinion is that majority are stolen and traded through black market.

Interesting read on this topic.

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...rocon/guns.htm

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

So, I am not a gun owner, and am admittedly a bit naive on the process. As a sportsman I have a lot of friends that hunt and support that right, and the right to carry if you feel the need.

What I want to know, and Andy and Ross, educate me. How DO so many guns get into the wrong hands? I don't just mean the mentally ill, but the gang bangers etc.. where do they come from?

Straw purchases (i.e. San Bernadino)?
Illegal imports (i.e. the 'Irish' on Sons of Anarchy)
Stolen? (from where? Homes? Factories?)
Secret manufacturing plants?
The so-called gun show loop holes?

How do we deal with this without restricting your rights?

Like drugs if there is money to be made selling them illegally there will be those that will procure them to sell . Remember prohibition? The war on drugs ? How's that working out ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, but that would just make it easier to tell which shops are selling guns that find their way into cop killers hands...

Oh wait.

I know right...because criminals frequently purchase their guns legally and register them to themselves and then leave them at the scene of the crime so that the police can trace the weapon back them....good grief

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I know right...because criminals frequently purchase their guns legally and register them to themselves and then leave them at the scene of the crime so that the police can trace the weapon back them....good grief

You didn't do your homework.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

Gun manufacturers fought hard against a regulation that would require additional sets of serial numbers in hidden locations on guns because it would cost too much.
Trouble is some of the guns used to kill people, including police officers have these serial numbers erased or removed and can't be traced, so killers can't be brought to justice.
Some of these victims families find it irresponsible of gun companies, why deny them the right to be heard in court.

How does the serial number on a gun prevent somebody from using it illegally ? The serial number could only be used to locate an owner if the police have that gun in hand. Chances are that gun was not purchased legally anyway .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

How does the serial number on a gun prevent somebody from using it illegally ? The serial number could only be used to locate an owner if the police have that gun in hand. Chances are that gun was not purchased legally anyway .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The serial number isn't to prevent a gun from being used illegally, it's to make it easier to understand the flow of illegal weapons. Odds are a lot are coming from the same group of corrupt dealers and straw purchasers.

Read that link I posted above...

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.