interesting

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Pls. point out where I said it was racist?"

Are you serious? You posted this..."minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID"And I told you why. Minorities and students don't drive as much and live in cities so they don't have as much need or in many cases can't afford a car. If you don't want to believe that, that is your problem. Pointing that out, doesn't make me racist. If it was I could call you racist almost every day when you bring blacks into your discussions. - Right?

Your were saying that Republicans favor voter id laws, because that will suppress black Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I? So you bring up blacks out of the blue and call me racist when I never mentioned blacks? Hmm turnout, because of the reduced acceess you claim (falsely, and without even trying to support it) minorities have to these ids.See what I have said a few times here and have repeated it in the 1st paragraph bc for some reason you don't seem to understand it.

If you lose an argument, better to admit that you lost it, than to deny you made it in the first place.

"It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more)."

That's a choice on their part, a choice not to bear the burden placed on all voters. It's not because of institutional bias.So it isn't a true statement? - I'll save you the trouble, it is a true statement.

"There is no fraud "

None? How many examples would you like us to post of voter fraud? It's not rampant, but of course it exists.

"Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud"

(1) What fraud? Didn't you say in your previous sentence, "there is no fraud"? And now all of a sudden, there is a little fraud? Which is it? (2) To answer your question, we do this because we can reduce the fraud even more. Less fraud is good, isn't it? It will only disenfranchise people if they choose to let it disenfranchise them. It doesn't prevent anyone from voting.

Of course there is fraud - it is so small to be meaningless. If you want to base your whole arguement on the little/no fraud statement go ahead. You'll just look petty. And of course less fraud is good but when 0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote bc you are trying to reduce the minimal (almost non existent) fraud, the costs outway the benefits.


The fact is Repubs. will do anything they can to prevent people from voting whether by Id laws, shortening polling times, refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want) or any other innovative way to vote. And that is Pathetic.

You can't make that wrong.

[Jim in CT]

Paul, I agree that a higher % of blacks don't have driver's licenses than whites. I get that, I do. That's not remotely the issue here, because YOU DON'T NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO VOTE. You can get an alternate photo id. So what I don't get, and what you haven't explained, is this - why is it harder for blacks (who don't have driver's licenses) to get an alternate photo id, than it is for whites (who don't have driver's licenses) to get that alternate photo id? The process of getting that id is the same for everybody, so why is it more problematic for blacks?

If you have 100 blacks, and 100 whites, none of whom have driver's licenses...and you have voter id laws...why is it harder for the blacks to get the alternate photo id, than it is for whites?

"Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I?"

You said "minorities". Are blacks a minority, or no? This is exhausting, I posed the only pertinent question above, if you cannot answer it, we all know what that means.

"0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote"

Correction - they choose not to vote. It's a free country. If they can't be bothered to get to town hall to get a photo id like the rest of us, that's on them. Maybe they need a history lesson on the price we have paid to safeguard their right to vote every November. if you don't know what I mean, look at the photos of Arlington National Cemetary.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul, I agree that a higher % of blacks don't have driver's licenses than whites. I get that, I do. That's not remotely the issue here, because YOU DON'T NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO VOTE. You can get an alternate photo id. So what I don't get, and what you haven't explained, is this - why is it harder for blacks (who don't have driver's licenses) to get an alternate photo id, than it is for whites (who don't have driver's licenses) to get that alternate photo id? The process of getting that id is the same for everybody, so why is it more problematic for blacks?It is harder for any poor person. I don't know all the reasons but there is a % of minorities (and yes blacks) who find it hard get the appropriate ID. Whether it is they don't make enough $, are old and don't have a birth certificate, I don't know. One of the challenges to a Texas law was some old nuns who all didn't have birth certificates, or drivers licenses.

If you have 100 blacks, and 100 whites, none of whom have driver's licenses...and you have voter id laws...why is it harder for the blacks to get the alternate photo id, than it is for whites?

"Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I?"

You said "minorities". Are blacks a minority, or no? This is exhausting, I posed the only pertinent question above, if you cannot answer it, we all know what that means.Certainly blacks are a minority. But I never mentioned blacks and yet the racist term has been thrown around a few times, hasn't it?

"0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote"

Correction - they choose not to vote. It's a free country. If they can't be bothered to get to town hall to get a photo id like the rest of us, that's on them. Maybe they need a history lesson on the price we have paid to safeguard their right to vote every November. if you don't know what I mean, look at the photos of Arlington National Cemetary.

I've been to Arlington - thanks.

I'm still confused why the discussion went from minorities to blacks and why the discussion isn't on why Repubs seem to want to do anything they can to keep the vote count down.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I've been to Arlington - thanks.

I'm still confused why the discussion went from minorities to blacks and why the discussion isn't on why Repubs seem to want to do anything they can to keep the vote count down.

"I don't know all the reasons but there is a % of minorities (and yes blacks) who find it hard get the appropriate ID."

You're smart. if you don't know the reasons, they can't be wide-spread reasons.

Hard. Not impossible. It's "hard" for me to get up an hour earlier to go vote before work. But since I don't work near where I live, I can only vote before work. It sucks getting up early, but I choose to do it. Others don't care enough. I'm not inclined to allow people to vote on-line just to make it easier for them.

You said it - hard. Those people can choose to do what is hard, or they can choose not to do what is hard. All that matters is this - it's their choice to make. The GOP isn't making that choice for them.

"I'm still confused why the discussion went from minorities to blacks "

Fine - minorities.

"Repubs seem to want to do anything they can to keep the vote count down"

The GOP can't keep the vote down. If the vote is down, it's because people freely choose not to vote.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The fact is Repubs. will do anything they can to prevent people from voting whether by Id laws, shortening polling times, refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want) or any other innovative way to vote. And that is Pathetic.

You can't make that wrong.

Shortening polling times? That helps Republicans? According to your stereotypes of why blacks can't get ids, I would think that shortening poling times helps blacks (and therefore Dems), because they are mor elikely to be hoe all day, and thus can go vote. While the white conservative sare at work all day, making it harder for them to vote.

Can't have it both ways.

"refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want)"

Fine. Here in CT, you are saying that the GOP is preventing automatic registration? How is that, when the GOP doesn't control anything?

I would suppor that, by th eway, that automatic registration. I reject th enotion that the GOP is blocking it, at least here in CT, because the Dems have conteolled the legislature as long as I have been alive.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Shortening polling times? That helps Republicans? According to your stereotypes of why blacks can't get ids, I would think that shortening poling times helps blacks (and therefore Dems), because they are mor elikely to be hoe all day, and thus can go vote. While the white conservative sare at work all day, making it harder for them to vote.Wow.

No, minorities (but you can use black since that seems to be your focus) work more in non traditional, non 9-5 jobs. They work 2 part time jobs. Allowing voting to be done over a few days or longer hours allows those minorities (or I guess blacks to you) to vote.

Can't have it both ways.

"refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want)"

Fine. Here in CT, you are saying that the GOP is preventing automatic registration? How is that, when the GOP doesn't control anything?Not in Conn. But other states. In fact, I believe that someone just proposed that in Conn.

I would suppor that, by th eway, that automatic registration. I reject th enotion that the GOP is blocking it, at least here in CT, because the Dems have conteolled the legislature as long as I have been alive.

no, not in Conn.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

no, not in Conn.

What time are most polls open? 12 hours? if you want to extend it, I guess I have no problem with that. But only one day. We all vote on the same day, that's the way it works.

Funny, Here in CT, in the last 2 gubernatorial elections, the Dems did just that - they extended voting hours! In 2010, it turns out there weren't enough ballots in the city of Hartford (I mean, who knew you needed enough ballots on election day?), so they kept the polls open later, just in Hartford, long enough for everyone to vote. I wonder which candidate that helped?

Then, in 2014, something happened in Bridgeport, and guess what? The Dems forced the polls to stay open longer, just in the city of Bridgeport. Again, I wonder who that helped?

I think I heard that the polls are already open in New Haven, for the 2018 gubernatorial election.

Whatever it takes.

Both sides use repugnant tactics. We all deserve better, you are correct there. And I'm not do dishinest that I'd deny that the GOP has an agenda when it proposes these laws. But the fact is, it only has the efefct desired by the GOP, if people choose to act the way that the GOP is banking on.