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Old 04-04-2016, 11:48 AM   #181
wdmso
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To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.


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who did that?




can you give an example?
Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:06 PM   #182
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Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps

1st .. Just blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions

2nd Just blame the religion and cultural concepts

3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other
Anyone who blames our society for terrorism, has been painting inside with the windows shut. Jihadists frequently attack other Muslims in their own countries, God forbid they believe in a slightly different branch of Islam. They hate everyone who isn't exactly like them.

"Just blame the religion and cultural concepts"

You're getting warmer.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism "

The Fort Hood shooter was a doctor, correct? Some kind of pshrink? He was an Army Major, I believe, he did well here. And he was radicalized. Bin Laden was educated. The couple in California who shot up his office? His co-workers had just thrown them a baby shower. They were embraced by our culture.

There's only one thing that connects every single one of them of them, and it's not socioeconomics. It's Islam, a religion based on the life of a bloodthirsty conqueror who would have made Atilla The Hun proud. We don't have the ability to make them all middle class with the wave of our hand.

I agree with most of what you're saying (I think you are too quick to dismiss the fault that lies with Islam, that's just my $0.02). Tough problem. The solution is very, very ugly and brutal.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:54 PM   #183
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Jim, you should visit a local mosque and talk to the imam about Mohammed.
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Old 04-04-2016, 04:40 PM   #184
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Jim, you should visit a local mosque and talk to the imam about Mohammed.
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Sure, I will get right on that. Just like you form your opinions of conservatives, based exclusively on what Karl Rove has to say. Right??

I studied religious history at UCONN, Spence, and I promise that my professors, and the guys that wrote the books, had no reason, at that time, to be biased. These were liberal professors.

This is about right...I could cite articles all day long. But since it goes against The Narrative, it must be dismissed at all costs, correct?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ent_of_enemies

He was also a slave owner and slave trader. Just like Jesus...

My God you are chugging the Kool Aid so far in 2016.

Ever going to get around to answering my question about the bowl of gummy bears? One last try...I give your kids a bowl of 100 gummy bears. I tell you that 1 is poisoned and will kill anyone who eats it. Ho wmany do you let your kids eat, before you take the bowl away? If the answer is "none", and of course it is...how is that different from the attitude expresed by those who are concerned that 1% - 2% of Muslims support jihadists?

Do you ever get embarassed that I give you direct answers to everything you ask, and you routinely dodge the tough questions I ask you?

Anyway, go ahead, and tell us why Mohammed had more in common with Jesus Christ than with Atilla The Hun...
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:47 AM   #185
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Not sure Who are the who your referring to ?? to provide the example your looking for ... are you saying both sides of the argument what creates extremism and what makes a person a terrorist? dont cherry pick their position I see 3 camps
no one "cherry picked" anything.....

I asked you to name someone who did "cherry pick" because you made the very broad statement "To cherry pick one issue out the the many reasons that extremist find followers is a cop out for both sides.."

some would call that a straw man argument.....

I think it's widely acknowledged that there are many reasons for radicalization...there are also specific components that are fueling the current problem particularly in Europe and as the author in Politico mentions, some seem to be unable to grasp the fact that radicalization occurs despite their every attempt to remove the "socioeconomic" causes and or improve them through their social welfare structure all of the necessities that ought largely thwart radicalization...I mean...if you provide someone with everything...why on earth would they want to blow you up? right?....many of the radicalized have been highly educated and hardly from impoverished socioeconomic backgrounds....


"So, we blame ourselves in order to remain blameless. Safer to blame our own societies and socioeconomic conditions than to blame the religious and cultural concepts with which terrorists poison their own minds.

According to reports, the unemployment figure in Brussels’ infamous Molenbeek neighborhood — now referred to as the jihadi hothouse of Europe — is 30 percent. This is a relatively high figure in Western Europe, but not unusual in southern European countries or the Arab world. There is poverty in Molenbeek, but that poverty is relative. There is no starvation, no homelessness, no lack of medical infrastructure, no lack of schools.

Compared to average living standards in Morocco or Egypt, the average living standard in Molenbeek is comfortably middle-class. Like in any other Western European country, many Belgian institutions and organizations offer support when families need housing, food, education, and health care. Opportunities for success, and to study and become a respected member in society, are countless compared to those that exist in many immigrants’ countries of origin. Still, there is deep resentment among the younger generations of immigrant Moroccan families."


3rd this one isn't talked about much but is closer to the reason we have terrorism

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other



I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

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Old 04-05-2016, 04:20 AM   #186
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"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:21 AM   #187
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Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem
that's not accurate
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:34 AM   #188
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"I asked you to name someone " so I take it you thoughtI was speaking about specific an SOL member. To repeat I said Both sides of the argument cherry pick the issue not sure how thats a straw man argument but ok

I think it's been very well demonstrated that extremism will/can exist and stand as a result of religious and cultural concepts despite socioeconomic and societal conditions....we've seen countless examples...Europe is attempting to prove this right now

^^^ Now your cherry picking the argument and assuming all socioeconomic and societal conditions. are equal and have no impact its just religious and cultural that are the cause of the problem

I clearly fall into camp #3

it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other

I cant say what % Religious VS societies and socioeconomic which causes what but the out come isn't debatable
WDMSO, there are many drivers of radicalization, as you astutely said.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other"

Then please explain the guy who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? These were not desperate, poor people who had any conceivable reason to hate the west. These were people who were doing well in the west.

There is one common thread that connects all of them, and it's not ignorance, poverty, hopelessness, desperation, or living in a third world craphole (while some terrorists share these things, certainly not all of them do). Furthermore, there are huge numbers of desperate, poor, hopeless Christians out there (Africa, central America). And they aren't slaughtering innocent human beings because they think Jesus wants them to.

The overwhelming majority of people killed by terrorists in the last 15 years, have been killed by Islamic terrorists. Not Christian terrorists, not Jewish terrorists, not Mormon terrorists, not Hindu terrorists, not Amish terrorists, not Buddhist terrorists Yet all these religions have poor followers, living in the most miserable places on Earth (maybe not the Amish, but you get my point). Why is that? When one religion, and only one, stands out as inspiring its faithful to act this way, there's got to be a connection.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:31 AM   #189
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WDMSO, there are many drivers of radicalization, as you astutely said.

"it's societies and socioeconomic conditions and religious and cultural concepts that drive extremism one wont stand with out the other"

Then please explain the guy who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? These were not desperate, poor people who had any conceivable reason to hate the west. These were people who were doing well in the west.

There is one common thread that connects all of them, and it's not ignorance, poverty, hopelessness, desperation, or living in a third world craphole (while some terrorists share these things, certainly not all of them do). Furthermore, there are huge numbers of desperate, poor, hopeless Christians out there (Africa, central America). And they aren't slaughtering innocent human beings because they think Jesus wants them to.

The overwhelming majority of people killed by terrorists in the last 15 years, have been killed by Islamic terrorists. Not Christian terrorists, not Jewish terrorists, not Mormon terrorists, not Hindu terrorists, not Amish terrorists, not Buddhist terrorists Yet all these religions have poor followers, living in the most miserable places on Earth (maybe not the Amish, but you get my point). Why is that? When one religion, and only one, stands out as inspiring its faithful to act this way, there's got to be a connection.
Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each but if I did its just become an endless circular argument..

There is no doubt there Islamic Terrorist I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA).. but the psychological effect is off the chart

try to find robert baer cult of the suicide bomber DVD.. or you tube I have it some place i can burn you a copy .. he shows the evolution of the suicide bomber from the Iraq Iran war to lebanon
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Old 04-06-2016, 05:13 AM   #190
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Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each
oh boy.....
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Old 04-06-2016, 06:29 AM   #191
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Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter? theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions and find terrorist act's for each but if I did its just become an endless circular argument..

There is no doubt there Islamic Terrorist I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA).. but the psychological effect is off the chart

try to find robert baer cult of the suicide bomber DVD.. or you tube I have it some place i can burn you a copy .. he shows the evolution of the suicide bomber from the Iraq Iran war to lebanon
"Again Jim who shot up his office in California recently, or the Fort Hood shooter?"

Ummm...radical Muslims

" theses are exceptions to the rule Christian jews huindu buddhist I am sure I can find the same exceptions"

You are sure all religions share a small number of homocidal maniacs? Then please tell us, what % of those killed by religiuous extremists in the past 20 years, were killed by Islamic extremists? And what % were slaughtered by Buddhist extremists? You seem like a sharp guy, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. You don't think there is anything about Islam that uniquely connects it to violence? There's no empirical evidence to suggest that Islamic fanatics are more dangerous than Buddhist fanatics? Come on...

"I just dont buy into the physical threat they pose to the west (USA)..

I hope you're right. But I'm not sure I agree. But of course, I hope you are correct.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:14 AM   #192
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Ya Islam is a peaceful religion, just a few wingnuts on the outskirts right? I don't think so, it's more than that

https://israelinprophecy.wordpress.c...w-world-order/

go ahead and poo poo it as conspiracy all you want

"In Summary

It becomes clear as we look into the origins of Islam, particularly its split between the Sunni and Shia sects, that much of the tactics of todays terrorist derive from an aberrant form of Islamic religion. Radicalized Islamís ideology was inherited through heretical elements, be they Kharijite or Hashshashin. The modern day fedayeen tactics deployed during the initial Muslim assault on Israel, in the Iranian Islamic Revolution, during the intafadaís in Israel, and then used during the opening days of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, are merely those tactics of the ancient fundamentalist heretics of Islam.

The leaders of radical Islam still promote a belief in a special divine mission, entice young men with visions of 72 virgins in some erotic paradice. They engage in kidnap, ransom, arson, theft, the slave trade, drug traffiking, political assassination, and mass murder all in the name of Allah and Islam. Exalted leaders of radical Islam still worship the Imamís and seek to fulfill their every word. Men such as Osama bin Laden inspire Muslim youth to do horrendous acts. Just as the devotee at Alamut flung himself off the mountain at the word of Sabbah, so too do todays radical Imams and clerics use those same occult powers that Sabbah employed to terrorize the world in order to advance their agenda.

These terrorist tell us that in the end they will win because they love death and we love life. How tragic. The God of Israel says that those who hate Him, love death. I would say, most average human beings love life over death, and in the end will choose HaShem over Allah."

"A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust" James Madison

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Regan
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:47 AM   #193
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Ya Islam is a peaceful religion, just a few wingnuts on the outskirts right? I don't think so, it's more than that."
Correct.

It's based on Mohammed. Who, despite what Spence inexplicably denies, was a conquerer, a murderer, and a slave trader.

The word itself, Islam, means submit or surrender.

This isn't all that complicated.
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